Part One with Bobby Scales: The 31 Year-Old Rookie

 On the field, Bobby Scales was known for his intelligence, leadership, baseball wisdom, and work ethic. Off the field, Bobby Scales is one of baseball's most respected thought leaders and people-developers.

Bobby had a long career that spanned both Major League Baseball (MLB) and Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB). Scales played college baseball at the University of Michigan after joining the team as a walk-on before being selected by the San Diego Padres in the 14th round of the 1999 MLB Draft. After 6 years in the Padres' minor league system, he played in the minor leagues for the Philadelphia Phillies and Boston Red Sox organizations before joining the Chicago Cubs in 2008.

In 2009, Scales made headlines when he made MLB debut with the Cubs at the age of 31. His first major league hit came against Tim Lincecum, the 2008 National League Cy Young Award winner. He'd have an impact in the major leagues with the Cubs in 2009 and 2010. Scales moved to Japan to play in NPB. He joined the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters in 2011 and later played for the Orix Buffaloes in 2012.

Scales' career is a testament to his perseverance, resilience, high baseball IQ, and leadership.

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This episode is available for download on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and anywhere else you find your podcasts.

In this conversation, Bobby Scales shares his journey from growing up in Michigan to playing in Major League Baseball, including his time with the Chicago Cubs and his current role as a broadcaster for the Detroit Tigers. He discusses the importance of education, the challenges of the draft process, and the significance of mentorship in professional sports. Bobby reflects on his experiences in the minor leagues, the emotional rollercoaster of being called up to the big leagues, and the lessons he learned about leadership and teamwork from veteran players. In this conversation, Bobby Scales shares his journey through professional baseball, detailing his experiences from his early days in the MLB to his time in Japan and his transition into broadcasting. He discusses the cultural differences in baseball between the U.S. and Japan, the challenges of player development, and the importance of having a growth mindset. Bobby also reflects on his roles in the front office and the responsibilities that come with them, as well as his current work as a broadcaster and consultant.


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Transcript

Jeff Perro (00:36)
Hello everybody, welcome to this week's episode, or shall I say two episodes of Catch Up with JP.

The guest today is Mr. Bobby Scales. Mr. Scales spent parts of the 2009 and 2010 seasons of the Chicago Cubs. Since then, he's done some really fascinating things inside the game. He was the director of player development for a couple years with the Los Angeles Angels,

Then he moved on to being the minor league field coordinator for the Pittsburgh Pirates. Two interesting high baseball intelligence jobs.

the Detroit Tigers.

I split this into two halves because Bobby's stories were fantastic. To do it justice, I didn't want to make one really long thing. I wanted to split into two digestible parts.

So listen to part one that begins right now. Part one is gonna be about Bobby's playing days There's no better person to tell Bobby's Scales story than Bobby Scales. So let's get to it.

Jeff Perro (01:36)
Mr. Bobby Scales. Mr. Scales spent some time in big leagues in the Chicago Cubs, and now he's a radio broadcaster with the Detroit Tigers. Mr. Scales, welcome to the show. So you were born in Michigan, but grew up in Georgia, correct? And then you went to college at University of Michigan.

Bobby Scales (01:45)
Thanks for having me on,

That's right. Yeah. ⁓

I did. Yep.

Jeff Perro (02:00)
You walked all into Michigan. Did you any offers from any smaller schools and how did you make that decision?

Bobby Scales (02:07)
Yeah, no, it was pretty, a pretty easy decision ⁓ for me, honestly. was born in Detroit, Southfield, Michigan, suburban Detroit. And then my dad's job took us to New York for a hot second. And then down to Atlanta where I did the majority of my school from like second or third grade up. So, I was a kid when we moved out here, but, my mom was born and raised on the west side of Detroit.

⁓ Her sister was still there at the time and my uncle is still there to this day. So a lot of Detroit ties. And then when it came time to go to school, really and truly it was all about school. It was not about baseball. It was all about school. What was the best school for me? you got to remember, I'm 47. when I was in the eighth grade, the Fab Five was doing their basketball thing. They were freshmen at Michigan. so...

Jeff Perro (02:51)
That sells

the school a little bit.

Bobby Scales (02:53)
That it didn't hurt the cause, right? I mean, and I was a Michigan fan because of my grandfather, really. It felt like I got a T-shirt and a hat in the mail anytime they won anything. And so then then the Fab Five burst onto the scene when I'm in the eighth grade and they're freshmen up there in ⁓ Ann Arbor. so I was like, I remember my dad took me down to the Omni where they played their very first NCAA tournament game. And we got.

these seats, you how it is you go outside and you scalp tickets or whatever, because we didn't have tickets or anything. We got tickets and the guy's like, yeah, yeah, they're great seats. They're like in the fifth row and you know, they're in the alumni section. Like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, right. Let's just get in the building and see what happens. Next thing you know, they were in the fifth row and we were in the alumni section. I remember the first play of the game, Juwan Howard won the tip and threw it to Jalen Rose. He takes two dribbles and throws an alley oop to Chris Weber and he dunks it on somebody.

Jeff Perro (03:22)
Yeah.

Bobby Scales (03:43)
And I was like, yeah, that's that. That I don't know what it takes to get in, but that's where I'm going. And so, you know, obviously, as I said, academically it worked out. I was able to get into school and then I called the coaches up and asked for an opportunity to walk on the team. They gave me that opportunity and, you know, the rest is kind of history.

Jeff Perro (03:45)
Alright.

Yeah, really is a esteemed college career. ⁓

Bobby Scales (04:06)
It was, listen,

like I said, it was fun. I got a chance. I'd have to tell this story. You got named ACE Adams. So, you know, I'm already in school academically. I'm going period. Right. And yeah, I had a few, not even really offers. There was interest from smaller schools, but nothing really. I didn't have a hard and fast offer, but I'm already in school. It's like December of my senior year. I started calling. I'm like, listen, you know, I to play baseball, I want to play baseball, whatever. So I call five, six, seven, eight, nine times and,

A couple of times, you get the voicemail back then. then a couple of times I got the other assistant recruiting coordinator. And he was basically like, yeah, we're full. We're not taking any more guys. We know what we got. If we don't know you by now, we're not going to know you, whatever. And then finally, it was about the 10th I called and I got a guy named Ace Adams. And Ace was the pitching coach, but he was also a recruiting coordinator. And he was also, he pitched at Michigan years ago. Really thick Boston accent, heavy accent, whatever.

Jeff Perro (05:04)
Ahem.

Bobby Scales (05:04)
He says,

look, kid, he goes, if you get up here and you get an opportunity to come by the baseball office, come down, we'd love to talk to you or whatever. you know, obviously I, so I got into school. We, didn't do the college tour. Let's go check out where you want to go to school thing. I said, I'm going to Michigan. I got into school and that's where I was going. And I got, I got accepted there and I decided I wanted to go there sight unseen. I had never been to campus. And so finally we go up there in the spring of my senior year.

And my mom and my dad and I, and we ended up making our way down to the baseball office And I met Coach Adams and Coach, Bill Freehan was the head coach at the time, former catcher in the Big Leagues with the Tigers, you know, on that 68 World Series team in Detroit. Yeah. And then he was, was the head coach at the time. And Ace was his pitching coach and recruiting coordinator. And so we sat in his office and ⁓

Jeff Perro (05:49)
All right, I didn't realize she was the head coach there.

Bobby Scales (06:01)
You know, he basically asked me what I did. I told him I was a switch hitting middle infielder and which was a lie because I didn't hit left-handed at the time. I only hit right-handed. So I told him I was a switch hitting middle. And there's a story behind that too, but ⁓ I told him I was a switch hitting middle infielder and only thing I wanted was an opportunity to make the club. If I don't make it, I'm going to walk up the hill. for people who don't know the South campus at Michigan is where all the athletic facilities are. And it's

Jeff Perro (06:11)
You

Bobby Scales (06:28)
the lower part of campus and you literally have to walk up a hill, walk up State Street, which is a pretty good little hill. And that's the rest of central campus and north campus, which is the all the academic units are. So I said, yeah, I said, I'm going to walk up the hill and I'm going to graduate in four years. I said, either way, I'm going to graduate in four years and I'm going to go do great things. And he goes, you know, he goes, damn kid, that's a great answer. So he says, you know, he says it.

Jeff Perro (06:51)
So he already

likes you.

Bobby Scales (06:53)
He had I think he you know and these guys they know like the network you know they get on the horn they call their friends who are scouts or guys who have seen me play

Jeff Perro (06:59)
But it's still

not the same as it is nowadays. It's not sending emails and sending emails, the YouTube videos of your highlights and Instagram. It's a little harder to walk on back in those days.

Bobby Scales (07:05)
⁓ well you-

Yeah, and I'm

for sure. mean, for the sake of time, I'm kind of glossing over some things, but you got to remember this is the this is the this is the winter of 94 early 95. Right. So I graduated high school in 95. So this is VHS tapes. This is still creating an athletic resume. for your listeners and your watchers of this, this is the big.

This is a big manila folder where you're stuffing everything in and you're sending it off to the coach in a snail mail. Like that's what this was, right? long story short, ⁓ he, you he tells my dad to stand up and my dad stands up and he's about six foot 195 pounds at the time. And at the time I'm probably five, nine, five, 10, 160 pounds as a senior in high school. ⁓ And then he says, he says, stand up. And my dad stands up. I stand up.

He looks me up and down, looks him up and down, looks me up and down, then tells us both to sit down. Then he asked my mom, you know, if I'm a good kid and all the things and she said, yeah. And, and he goes, all right, kid, you're going to get a chance to be with us for the entire fall. And so if you do well, you'll stick for the spring. If you don't, you don't. And so I was kind of granted, preferred to walk on status at that point and kind of sight unseen. He had not seen me play, but

He gave me an opportunity and like I said, I came in that fall and I did a nice job and the rest was history.

Jeff Perro (08:27)
you did a nice job for four years. very much accomplished.

Bobby Scales (08:27)
I was there for four years.

We,

yeah, we had some good teams too.

our sophomore year, so in 97, we won the first outright Big Ten that they had won in a number of years. I think it was like 10 years. And then two years later, we ended up not winning the regular season Big Ten Championship what we qualified for the tournament. So you gotta remember, there's a lot of things different than there, than, than what's going on in the Big Ten Baseball Conference now.

Back when I played, first of all, you played four game sets in the Big 10. You played one Friday, two Saturday, one Sunday. you had to finish in the top four to make it to the conference tournament. And that's not how it is now and not how it is in most places. then also, too, if you won the regular season outright, then you hosted the tournament.

my freshman year we finished like fourth or third. think it was, and we ended up going to Penn state. They won the big 10 outright. My sophomore year, we won the big 10 outright, hosted a tournament and lost in the championship game to Ohio state. So in my junior year, we didn't even win. We didn't get to the tournament. We got, ⁓ we just didn't have a great year. And then senior year, it was interesting. Senior year is my most gratifying one for the simple fact that we finished fourth and we had to get hot to do it. We were not, we had a bunch of guys injured. We did not have.

a great year collectively. had my best year as a, as a collegiate player, my senior year, but collectively as a unit, we did not have a great year, but we got hot, got some guys back at the right time and chased it down and got, got the tournament as the four seed and then Ohio state wanted, outright. So they hosted and we go down there and we beat them the first night. We ended up or beating Minnesota, in the championship game to, to, to earn a berth in the tournament and end up, ⁓ going to the Notre Dame regional and we lost in the regional finals. So,

It was good times, good guys, J.J. Putz was on those teams. you know, at the 13 or 14 years in the big leagues. Mike Cervenak you got to taste in the big leagues. had, you know, a bunch of guys drafted. Bobby Korecky was a freshman when I was a senior. He pitched for three or four years in the big leagues. So we had talent. We had good players on those teams and it was a good time.

Jeff Perro (10:13)
said.

You get drafted in the 14th round in 99 by the Padres. What is the draft experience like? Were you expected for the Padres to take you? Were you expected to go that high? Higher?

Bobby Scales (10:40)
I didn't know,

honestly. I didn't know. I knew very little about the draft. There was some scuttlebutt that I was gonna get drafted the year before. I had a really good junior year, but I wasn't going anywhere. I wasn't gonna be a first rounder. I wasn't gonna get life changing money. And in my experience at Michigan in my education, were first and foremost to me. senior year, by the time senior year came around, especially in the fall,

You know, had done all the question again. See, this is funny, right? See, kids don't know this stuff. Like now it's apps, like the scout that likes you will get your phone number, send you a link. You go to the link, you fill out the questionnaire. Uh, back then it was like guys had to like send you the questionnaire either to the baseball office, to your, or to your address on campus. Right. And so, you know, you would get all the things and I filled out all the things for pretty much every team, uh, had some level of interest in me. I really thought the Cincinnati Reds came in.

They did the psychological test on me. did all these other testings on me. The Toronto Blue Jays were extremely interested as well. And I really thought it was going to be one of those two clubs. then I remember my coach, ⁓ my hitting coach, Chris Harrison. He said, you know, a lot of times it's the team that doesn't really make a lot of fuss or contact you that ends up drafting you. And sure enough, I had never heard, you know,

Jeff Perro (11:56)
I've heard that before as well because they don't want everybody to

kind of let their strategy out.

Bobby Scales (12:02)
Yeah, you know, and the funny part was like, you know, the Yankees, I remember the Yankee Scout. ⁓ was was dating a young lady at the time and she asked, she called, she said, Yeah, the Yankee Scout called me. I was like, Wow, how did he get your number? What whatever all the things and then and then she but they do their job, you know, that's that's that's what these guys get paid to do. And, you know, I had a guy asked me, Hey, I heard you're going to go to medical school. And I was like, I am sports management. am not a

Jeff Perro (12:15)
Creepy.

Bobby Scales (12:27)
sports medicine pre-med major by any stretch of the imagination. you know, there's a lot of stuff that ended up happening, but the day of the draft, and this is, it's sweet and it's bittersweet for me at the same time to tell the story now, because I was with a good buddy of mine, Bill LaRosa, who actually ⁓ is still in Michigan area, does a lot of work with a lot of hockey players in ⁓ representation and management. And then another good friend of mine, Brian Bush, and then...

dear friend of mine who we lost last summer to a heart attack at 46 years old, Mike Seestedt we were playing golf because we had all decided we're not going to sit around. Billy was a couple of years behind us, but we all decided we're not going to sit around and wait for the phone to ring. That's just like, that's just not doesn't make any sense. So we end up going to play golf ⁓ at Bill's dad's country club. And so ⁓ at the turn, Brian got a whole bunch of phone calls. He got drafted in the six by the Phillies.

And then ⁓ in the 17th fairway, my phone starts blowing up. My dad, my mom are on the phone. They're saying, yeah, they just called the house. The Padres just drafted you in the 14th. And then we finished the round. go to the clubhouse and Mike gets drafted like his father. They're trying to find him and end up calling me because the Orioles had drafted him in like, I think, the 21st or 22nd round. So that was a really cool day.

a sad day now a little bit because you one of them, lost one of our brothers, you know, but that that's kind of my draft story. And then I remember I do remember calling him. So this is you got to get again. People got to remember this is before everybody had a cell phone. And I used to catch so much flack because I was like one of the first guys on our team to have a cell phone. Yeah, this is like night. So this is 99. I had a cell phone. I remember Mike Keenan from the San Diego Padres called and he said, hey, you know, you you got time to talk, you know.

Jeff Perro (14:04)
I always win the last.

Bobby Scales (14:17)
We just drafted you. And I remember telling him like, ⁓ can I finish my round of golf? Because, you know, I just hit a big drive in the middle of the fairway. And he's he's like kind of shocked. And I'm thinking to myself, was like, what are you guys going to undraft me at this point? Like, what's going to happen? ⁓ So, sure enough, now, you know, we drove back to campus and, and I, you know, I got back to my apartment and I was rooming, my two roommates were two of my best friends to this day. They're twins. They were track guys and, told them and they were happy. And I was like, you know,

Jeff Perro (14:32)
Yeah, right.

Bobby Scales (14:46)
you know, and so I ended up calling him back and obviously the process started. I was a senior. I had this going to be a senior sign. It was what it was. So it wasn't a whole bunch of negotiating. Signed or come, you know, selling insurance with my dad at that point. mean, that decision was pretty easy.

Jeff Perro (15:01)
How was your experience with your first taste of professional baseball?

Bobby Scales (15:01)
sure did.

So it was awesome. It was the foundation really of why I wanted to stay in the game when I was done playing. From the very, very beginning, just from, you you your signed, you get drafted, you fly into, we had draft camp in Arizona, you fly into Arizona, you go out to Peoria. And, you know, I remember the first at bat I had, there was some skinny kid, left-handed kid from Mexico on the mound.

We're playing, you know, we're playing an inter squad game against some of the kids that are at the complex. There's this skinny left-handed kid on the mound. these thick Coke bottle glasses on just walking kind of gangly kind of hadn't even grown into his body yet. Just kind of then all of a sudden, wham, he throws one about 94 with some arm side run to it. And then he throws me a fat forcing inside breaks my back. That's like my first at bat. I hear I am I'm 21 year old.

You know, uh, college player done a few things, been pretty, pretty good in this 16 year, 17 year old kid from Mexico just saws me off. like, what is going on with that kid was Oliver Perez. So he turned out to be pretty good about 20 years in the big leagues, you know, uh, with a bunch of teams, but just to, know, it's just, that was the first experience. It was just, it was just awesome. It was great to be with different guys, small parts of the country. My roommate was a guy named Jason Moore, who I still talk to on occasion. He got about.

Jeff Perro (16:09)
Okay, he's good.

Bobby Scales (16:25)
He got a bunch of money to sign out of university at Texas, really good player, switch hitter. and just the collection of guys as the cool part is a collection of guys from all over the world, really. ⁓ but my coaches, the coaches were fantastic. Doug Dascenzo was our outfield base front and coach. Tony Franklin was our, was our infield instructor. ⁓ who was one of, he's like an uncle to me. He was one of, I still talk to him like quite a bit, ⁓ all these years later. Ty Waller was the farm director.

⁓ you know, guy named Bill Bryk who's a legendary scout. Bill Bryk was a scout. was our field coordinator at the time. He ended up being a scout for the diamond backs and a couple other teams. And, ⁓ we lost him a couple of years ago too, but just awesome people and, and, and good baseball men. and I don't mean that like in a chauvinistic way, but like when you're that age and you want to understand how to conduct yourself.

Jeff Perro (16:54)
Okay.

Bobby Scales (17:18)
as a professional in this game and you had those men you're looking up to, it was a tremendous experience.

Jeff Perro (17:22)
it seemed like the game changed the last 10, 15, 20 years, where there's less of that veteran players as your coaches and that mentorship of how to handle yourself as a professional. If you notice that?

Bobby Scales (17:34)
Yeah.

No, I think it's real. I think there's just less guys that ⁓ I don't like the term lifers because it implies that I hear a lifer implies that there's nothing else you could be doing professionally like in another realm. But yeah, it does. that's not for the guys. I think that is the best teachers. That's not that's not the case. I you I believe in the term caretaker of the game.

Jeff Perro (17:51)
It kind of implies stuck.

Bobby Scales (18:03)
And what I mean by that is someone who loves the game, someone who understands what the game means to a lot of people, someone who's acquired a boatload of knowledge over a long period of time, and someone who has a capacity and a desire to want to pass that knowledge on. And I think there's less of those guys ⁓ in the game now than there were when I played. And I don't want to sound like a curmudgeon, like back when I played, but like it's different. It's a different tone. It's a different tenor and feel to the game now.

Jeff Perro (18:32)
It doesn't necessarily mean wrong, it's just different. ⁓

Bobby Scales (18:32)
I do believe. Correct, right, and

I think the one thing I want to I want to make sure that people understand is. ⁓

There are plenty of guys who didn't have extensive playing experience, who are good coaches, good teachers. ⁓ I do think their path is harder and it takes, I think it takes a person who is expert in that area, but also expert at handling people. If you didn't play to get a real foothold, especially with players. ⁓ But I think if you did play, I think it helps you because it helps you with credibility, typically because you've been through what they've been through on some level, right?

But at the same time, you do have to be able to teach, have to be able to blend what you know and what you see with what's happening with the metrics and what have you. So ⁓ there's less, it's different. I don't think it's bad. It is definitely different than it was when I came through.

Jeff Perro (19:25)
That's an intro

perspective I use when I lay down. You have to be an expert at people because you don't have that baseball experience to relate to. Other guys, say if you want to go coach AA right now, you play AA one day. You understand how to relate to those players. But if those guys haven't played AA, you have to be an expert at communication.

Bobby Scales (19:39)
Yeah, now listen.

Yeah. And I think, I think the other part of that is, that you can't be afraid of the new metrics, the new numbers and the new language, ⁓ you know, that surrounds this game either. And I think that's what happens to a lot of, a lot of coaches that played who find themselves having to do other things now, because, ⁓ it's a, it's a different, it's different. It's a different language. You better learn it. You better understand it. You better be able to convey it. I don't care how, you know, you could have played 20 years in the big leagues, but if you can't speak the same language as these kids now, then you can't help them. at the end of the day,

If you're coaching or if you're in a management space in professional baseball, your job is to figure out a way to get this player to the next dot in your development, whether they're in A-Ball whether they're five, six, seven years in their major league career. using the technology and the tools at your disposal, plus the experience that you have as a professional, both playing and then coaching, that's, you have to blend all those things. It's a blend of everything.

Jeff Perro (20:37)
And that's not just a baseball thing, that's a life thing. If you're managing a bank or a restaurant, if you're an engineer, you have to get that technology

Bobby Scales (20:40)
That's it.

you know, the Orioles thing is funny because I always forget about that because I was only there for like, I don't know, like two weeks or something like that. I was. Yeah, I was actually a player to be named later later. So this is how that went. So it was 2006. had signed. So 2005 was my last year with San Diego. I'm a six year free agent. Pretty much knew I wasn't going to go back there. Even if they wanted me back, I wasn't going to go back. Like I was there for five years, guys. Like if you didn't want me to get to the big leagues.

Jeff Perro (20:57)
I thought it was like two weeks yet.

Bobby Scales (21:19)
with you guys, I better go try somewhere else, right? So sign with the Phillies.

Jeff Perro (21:22)
Which is the reason for that

six year contract, that's why it exists. End of rule five draft.

Bobby Scales (21:26)
And it's a good thing.

Yeah, yeah, it's great. And I played again, I played with some I played under some coaches that got stuck in organizations behind really good players and they never got to the big leagues. And you look at their numbers like, dang, man, what what happened over there? And then just got stuck. It was what it was. So end up with the Phillies in 06. Had a great year in Scranton on one of my favorite teams I ever played on. John Russell was the manager. We had some good dudes and some funny cats on that team, and it was a blast. We end up we end up not winning.

the international league, but it was a good time. So at the end of the season, I got a call from Steve Noworyta who was the farm director in Philadelphia at the time. He said, look, goes, you were a player to be named later in the Jeff Conine deal to bring Conine over here. So we're going to send you that way.

you'll hear from the Orioles, you know, some later today or whatever, sure enough. And then he says, he goes, hey, we really want you back. ⁓ So just don't sign with them. So I was like, all right. You know, at the end of the day, like, I don't know, like it was weird because like it was literally like, I don't know the date of the transaction, but it was like two weeks in the end. It was going to be two weeks in the end of the World Series and five days after the World Series, free agency start to the entire industry. So it was like

Jeff Perro (22:28)
Might be tampering, I don't know.

Bobby Scales (22:45)
It was no more than like, I don't know, it three weeks total.

Jeff Perro (22:47)
I like

that. It's like two weeks. You were traded on the October the 1st and created for your agency on the 12th or 14th or something. Two weeks.

Bobby Scales (22:56)
I don't

remember the dates, but it was weird because so then, Steve called me and then I don't even remember who I talked to with the Orioles, but they called me and they said, hey, welcome. We'll get some information out to you this day. I'm like, okay. And so then ⁓ the date comes up where I'm a free agent and I never heard from the Orioles again. And I was like, all right. And so then interestingly enough, the first day of

Minor league free agency, the Boston Red Sox called my agent Barry Meister and Barry called me and he said, hey, Boston's interested. You want to go over there? I was like, I'm a big believer in going where you're wanted and they called first. So let's make it happen. And that was it. And it was really easy. I signed over there, got to invite the camp and that's how that went.

Jeff Perro (23:44)
So you got your camp and you were wanted?

Bobby Scales (23:47)
Yeah. So the funny part was, so that was 2007. Obviously they go on to win the world series, right? So that, that, that, that camp was great. And the reason that camp was great because I had a horrible big league spring training in 2006 and they wanted me to do well. They gave me some rope to do well, but boy, I put so much pressure on myself from my very first major league spring training. was like, yeah, I'm going to come in here. I'm going to make this team and they're going to know who I am and this, that, and the other. I played awful. I was the worst player there.

Uh, and so the only thing I wanted to do, I remember this was the, and this is the first time this happened to me too. And I took this with me the rest of my time. Um, I went to spring training, get down there. Terry Francona is walking through the clubhouse in Boston and the thing that I thought was really cool is I'll never forget this. came up to me.

And it's one of those things where sometimes if you go to people and they're in their locker, you can kind of look over their shoulder if you don't know who they are or if you hadn't met them before. You can read the name. And I was standing. I was not standing at my locker. I was in all these clubhouses are the same as spring training. You got the big dogs where they want to be. And then you've got kind of like you like non roster invite row. Right. You got non roster invite row. And right. I was standing over there, but I was not in front of my locker. And he looked up. You could see I could follow his eyes. He looked up.

Jeff Perro (24:54)
Everybody else. Yeah.

Bobby Scales (25:05)
That wasn't me. And then he said, Hey, Bobby, nice to meet you. So he had done a ton of homework on assuming everybody in there and realize who I was and didn't have to ask me and whatever, talk to him. then I think two days later, we had our individual meetings with, with Theo and, and Tito and every player from David Ortiz to me, you know, had individual meetings with them prior to spring training and, and,

at that point I got drafted as a second baseman, but I was a utility player. I played everywhere at that point. Just put me out there. so Theo asked me, Hey, what's your best position? I said, playing just put me out there. He laughed. I thought it was funny. And then he goes, no, seriously. He goes, what do you want to get out of this camp? And so I told him, said, listen, I said, I was terrible last year in major league camp with Philadelphia. Absolutely awful. put too much pressure on myself. I said, my only goal is that I want to

Go out there, I wanna have some fun. I'm gonna play this game hard. But also too, I wanna show you that if you need a guy from Pawtucket this year, and you go around the room, right? So that clubhouse was Varitek, Papi Manny, Mike Lowell, ⁓ Youkilis Pedroia

Jeff Perro (26:15)
So this was in front of

Bobby Scales (26:17)
I mean, there's no spots on this team. Pedroia is a rookie. He came up the year before. He was their big prospect. He's going to start the year at second base. Everybody knows that, right?

And I said, look, I'm not gonna make this team. I know that. I said, but you're not gonna get through this year with just the guys you leave Fort Myers with. I said, I wanna be the guy that if you need a guy, I can show you that I'm playing good enough and you can trust me in any position. He goes, that's a great answer. You will get an opportunity to do that this spring. And he ran me out there the whole time and I played well and I ended up.

You know, I ended up getting about probably 50 or 60 at bats in a major league spring training, not being a guy. Yeah. And it kept, it kept getting more more interesting because you go through the cuts and like Kevin Cash was on that team, know, Joe McEwing was on that team and he was in, we get to the end of major league camp and like everybody's gone except me, Cashey, ⁓ Joe Mack. ⁓

Jeff Perro (26:54)
What?

Bobby Scales (27:14)
You know, and some pitchers that got held over just, to soak up some of the volume. So, um, I remember about eight days left in spring training. He brought me in. He said, listen, he goes, you did a great job. You're not going to make the team. Do you want to go down the street to minor league camp and play every day and get ready to play every day in Pawtucket? Or do you want to go stay here? Now, if you stay here, I can't guarantee how many at bats I'm going to give you. Cause I got to let the dogs run at this point. And I was like, if it's all the same to you, I'd rather stay here.

I'm not, I haven't played every day. I will be ready to play in photocad when that time comes. And sure enough, he was okay. Just remember, can't, I can't guarantee you how many at bats I'm going to give you. Now we had, we had eight days left to camp in seven games. I ended up starting six of those seven games. So, you know, things change in a hurry and he kept running me out there and Tito's fantastic. And I see why his team's always performed because he has a special way about people. He can drag the best out of every single person that crosses his path.

that was probably, I mean, of course, right. Like I had spring trains where I was more factor and more had a real opportunity to make the team, but that was probably my favorite spring training because it really, it really freed me up to show me that I could, you know, play in the big leagues if, if I, if I got that opportunity and it was just, it was just a treat having 30 days, ⁓ in that camp.

Jeff Perro (28:32)
I love hearing those tough decisions where somebody says, you can choose A or B, what are you going to do? And I love hearing the response to those. People put themselves in the shoes of big leaders hitting a grand slam in the World Series, Game 7. But to put yourself in the shoes of that decision of, I go down the street to my league camp or do I stay to stick around here? That's so insightful.

Bobby Scales (28:55)
It was

hard. It wasn't hard. You want to stay.

Jeff Perro (28:58)
I getcha, I getcha. But if you're on

the bench in the 40 heat for those last seven games, that would suck. But at least you're out there playing in the minor league camp. That'd be pretty cool.

Bobby Scales (29:03)
Yeah. Yeah, what?

Yeah, no, look, and the thing, the thing I got so many, it was interesting. Like you look back, it's one of those things in life where you look back and you, don't realize how much you learned from certain experiences until years later, until you can kind of reflect and go back on certain things. And I just remember there was about a, about a two week span. So when you're a non roster invite, again, you got to remember it's different now. Now all of these teams, have apps and you get the app on your phone when you sign it and sends you all the information or whatever.

It wasn't that way back then. You walk in the clubhouse and you look at the bulletin board. And then on the way out of the clubhouse, you walk out of the clubhouse and you look at the bulletin board and you look at it three or four times and you go find the other bulletin board to make sure that all the information is there because that was your opportunity to figure out what you needed to do. So one of the things I used to do, and again, baseball culture has changed in this too.

These guys don't, get to the stadium for like spring training at like 730-8 now, whereas I used to walk in that building as a player. I used to walk in that building like five o'clock. And the reason I did was like, okay, I would get there. I get there early. if something went up on the board or something changed from the night before, if I'm there, you can't be wrong. Right? You get there, you get your, you get your lift in, you towel off, whatever, put your, practice uniform on whatever.

And then you sit around and the reason you sit around because if the plans change or if a guy turns up hurt, then you want a hey Scales that you're to go on a trip instead of so and so. Okay, awesome. Like you're there and you're, you're top of mind. And that's so I always did that. And I share this story because

Jeff Perro (30:45)
I have a feeling you still

do that in the other careers you've had since as a player.

Bobby Scales (30:50)
I do. It's just my nature. I don't sleep a ton anyway. So it's,

it's just how I'm wired. But I remember one day I get there, it's like five 30 and I put my stuff down and I see, Papi's walking out of of the weight room. Like he's walking out and he's got a full lather He's, he's done with his lift. And he says, Hey man, what are you doing here? You know, all the things, you know, so I said, Hey man, like I said, if I'm here early, I said, I'm non roster guy. If I'm here early.

Jeff Perro (31:05)
Right, it's done.

Bobby Scales (31:16)
something happens, I can't be wrong. You're like, ⁓ he goes, that's smart. He goes, you want to hit? Yeah, I want to hit. end up, but like the next two weeks, it's me, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, and you remember a big prospect, Wily Mo Pena? Like hell, he could hit balls as far as anybody, right? Like that's the hitting group. And I'm like, I have no business being in this hitting group right now, but I was there early and I got my opportunity to hang out with him and we would go hit early.

Jeff Perro (31:32)
Yeah, that guy could mash

Bobby Scales (31:45)
And then, you know, and the part that I always love is like, if you ask him, he probably wouldn't even remember this, because he probably did this to a lot of guys, but like he would, here I am, I got no big league experience and I'm in there, I'm switch hitting, I'm going back and forth, right, left handed. And he's asking me questions like, how do you go about this? How do you go about that? What do you think about this? And what do you think about this situation here? Like it wasn't just in there, it wasn't mindless hitting. are, he's the classroom man.

Jeff Perro (32:10)
It was classroom.

Bobby Scales (32:14)
It's the classroom like we I am and I am deep in school and then he's asking me questions and he likes my answers or whatever or he'll say, hey, you know, I know you haven't been here yet, but you know, think about this. And I said, so I asked him one day, said, Papi you like. He goes, he goes, hey, man, listen, here's the deal. He goes, every if you're in this clubhouse, that means our team thinks you have a chance to impact our roster. If you come up for one day and you.

do something positive to help our team win one game and we win the division by a game and we go on to win the World Series, you helped us win. So I want you to be comfortable here and I want you to know that, have the confidence that if you get called up, everything's gonna be cool.

Jeff Perro (32:55)
He's right. He's absolutely right.

Bobby Scales (32:57)
I never, I was just so taken aback at that. And he is, he's absolutely right. But it's just like, wow. It's something that I will never forget. It's a lesson in leadership. It's a lesson in when you're the clubhouse leader, you can decide to make young guys' lives miserable, or you can decide to make them comfortable because at the end of the day, the ultimate thing is winning.

And he chose that one. And it didn't matter who it was or how old you were. at that point, even then, I was older than most guys who hadn't been to the big leagues, right? So ⁓ it was awesome. That experience, that 2007 spring training was just something I'll never forget.

Jeff Perro (33:36)
I'm glad I asked you about that. 2008, you end up over the Cubs. Make your big league debut at 31 years old.

Bobby Scales (33:45)
Yeah, that was, that was eight. So that was, went the next year and went to the Cubs, had another sub par spring training, but I had a great year, three 20. I think I was like, uh, four, four 15, something like on base percentage. think I OPS near 900 or whatever. And 15 homers was a career high for me. I had a great year. It didn't get called up. That one hurt. But then I was like, I didn't want to bounce around organization. That was a six year mind league free agent again.

I didn't want to bounce around. They expressed interest very early. And I said, you know what? I want to sign right back here. And so I did. And then 09 I to spring training, had a good camp. And I remember at the end of camp when I got sent out, Jim Hendry was like, listen, he goes, you played great. You played great. You everything we asked you to do. He's like, if you, if you go down there and you do your job and the need arises, you may be the first guy up. And so I was like, okay. So I got sent out, went down and did well. then

⁓ May 1st got called up, sort of. I didn't get activated. I was in Wrigley and then went back down. then May 4th got called up, got activated, was on deck when Coyhill bounced into a double play to end the game and then I got to start the next day against the Giants.

Jeff Perro (34:55)
What a week!

Bobby Scales (34:57)
Yeah, it was, we were in, ⁓ Memphis playing against the Cardinals, AAA and Memphis Redbirds. And this is on the 30th of April. we had an off day in Memphis. And so we had a really, really young, really young AAA team.

It was like very young and I was like clearly the oldest guy, the veteran. Bobby Dickerson was my manager. Now the infield court coach with the Phillies, he called me into his hotel room. I was at the flying fish, getting something to eat. was like mid, it was like midday or whatever. So I get the food, take it back to the hotel, go up to his room. and Bobby was there, Mike Mason, the pitching coach and, and Von Joshua, my hitting coach was all there. And I was like,

Why is or what's what's going on here? He's like, all right, so Bobby gets down to it. He's no nonsense guy, too. And he's like, look, here's the deal. You know, Aramis Ramirez is he kind of tweaked his calf yesterday in Arizona. They got an off day today. He says they don't know how he's going to turn up tomorrow when he gets to, you know, when he gets to Wrigley And so you got to remember back then that the injured list DL as it were, the injury list was 15 days. So it's two weeks. If you if you put a player on there, you know, lose for two weeks. Right. So.

Jeff Perro (35:40)
Guys?

Bobby Scales (36:07)
So long story short, he says, look, they're gonna fly to Chicago. And once you get to Chicago, call the trainer and say, hey, listen, I'm here. What do you want me to do? And just make sure they know you're in town. So I was like, cool. So he's like, listen, can't go telling your buddies, tell your wife, tell your parents so they're not wondering where in the world you are.

So I called I remember calling my my then wife and I said look you can't tell anybody I'm going to the big leagues tomorrow, but I mean I could activate it and so then there's questions are so answer all the questions I call my parents they're like well, I was like you can't tell anybody So I fly in I fly into Chicago and one of my really good friends Peter Marte. He's on our he was on our team in college. He's working or whatever. So soon as I

hit the ground, right? He starts calling, people start calling and he calls me. He says, Hey buddy, you here? I'm like, like, I didn't tell anybody, right? So, but you know, as the reporters know, they know what's, you know, so it's all over the papers. It's in, it's in all the papers, whatever. So he goes, are you here? I was like, yeah, like, why do you know? He goes, I said, it's all over the place. said, okay. And then he says something to me that's hilarious. He goes, Hey, listen, I gotta go to my boss's office. I gotta quit my job and then let's go get lunch. So

Jeff Perro (36:57)
I'm ready.

Bobby Scales (37:16)
I was like, ⁓ okay. He goes, no, it's fine. I got something else lined up. Right. I was like, I was, I was like, he was not fine. I got something else lined up. Don't worry about it. just got it. I just got to my job real quick. So sure enough, he quit his job. We go to lunch and then I go to Wrigley and I walk in and the first person that greets me is a Aramis Ramirez I walk in the clubhouse and he says, Hey man, are you here for me? I was like, I don't know. I don't know what's going on. I'm just here. He goes, yeah. He goes, I got no chance.

Jeff Perro (37:19)
Could you fake a tummy ache maybe and just call it a day?

Bobby Scales (37:43)
He goes, this doesn't feel good. I got no chance. I was like, okay. So then the thing was like what I didn't want to do, cause I had seen this happen to a teammate of mine. You get the, you get the call up the ingesting case call up or whatever. And, and you don't get activated and then you get back down and then you never get activated. You never go to the big leagues. So what I mentally didn't want to take myself to that place. Like I am not going to.

This is not going to enter my mind. I'm here. going back. I kept telling, I remember kept telling myself that right. So sure enough, right. go up, Lou Pinella is  manager and knock on the door. Hey, skip. I'm here. I know the deal. Everything's cool. I get it. If he can go, then he's going to go. If he can't go and you got to put them on, then I'll be here and whatever you need for me is great. So I do all that. And so it's like four, we have a night game that day against the Marlins. And so it's like four 15 stretches at four 20.

I still don't know should I get dressed and go out to stretch? What should I do so I don't get dressed and I just hang out and sitting there, everybody's stirring about and sure enough about 4.30, Jim Hendry walks in, comes and grabs me, goes into Mark O'Neill, the head trainer's office and says, hey, listen, we're gonna send you back. I think Aramis is gonna be good in a few days, but I can't lose him for two weeks and we think he's gonna be good in two or three days. I was like, that makes sense. He goes,

feel bad for you, I'm going to make it up to you. I was like, listen, I this is the game, man. Like, you know, we signed up for this. I'm good. He said, listen, stay tonight here, get a good steak, you know, hang out, whatever. Uh, and we'll get you back to, to AAA tomorrow. I said, if it's all the same, by now it's like five o'clock. I was like, can you get me on the last flight back to Memphis? And he's like, you want to go back tonight? I go, yeah. If I'm going to be in AAA, I want to play tomorrow. So.

That's me gets me on the last flight back to Memphis. I end up. Get back there about, 10, 30, 11 o'clock and I see the boys walking in from the game and you know, was what it was. And so a few days later, a few days later, Carlos Zambrano I think if I'm not mistaken, he had already hit a homer in that game. You he was a really good hitting pitcher, right? So.

Jeff Perro (39:52)
Absolutely.

Bobby Scales (39:53)
He had hit a homer in that game and then he tried to bunt one time and ran down the line and pulled his hamstring. And so I ended up going up for him. It was supposed to be a short stint. Some other stuff happened. I ended up staying for another six weeks. So yeah, it was an interesting week. My first call up in a week in the big leagues.

Jeff Perro (40:15)
That's awesome, man. I love hearing those stories. after your time with the Cubs, how did you end up in Japan?

Bobby Scales (40:21)
Yeah. So that's interesting. Another, another funny story. So up and down in nine, ⁓ and then, and then in 10 up and down a little bit. so then went to spring training and 11 signed back. They took me off the roster, DFA me clear waivers. I elected to go back and you know, Jim Hendry calls me that day and says, look, he says, ⁓ we want you back. He goes, you come to camp with us in 11, you got a realistic chance of making this club.

because you did a good job for us last couple of years, appreciate your work. And so the thing I appreciate, and I tell, I see Jim from time to time, whether it be winter meetings or whatever, I say, listen, man, like, I appreciate what you did for me. You you could have gone a different bunch of different directions and did. And the one thing I appreciate more than anything else is everything he ever told me that was going to happen was true. Like he said, look, he never, he shot me straight. He never BS me. And I appreciated that. And so he called me and said, Hey, got a chance to make this team in 11. I said, okay. So

I go to show up in 11, spring training and I played great. ⁓ it really, it came down, I don't know who it came down to. I don't know what the decision tree was, but at end of the day, I was the last guy that got notified that he wasn't making the club. So I was kind of, I was the 26th man that then, I was 27th, but I was the 26th man then. And I go to AAA and he's like, you know the deal. Like if you're playing good enough, we're going to come get you.

So I trusted that and I believed that and I did, and I went down and I was playing well in 11 and thought I was gonna get a chance to go up. And there was a couple of games where I'm completely healthy, couple, about two or three days in a row, I was completely healthy and I ended up not playing. And usually that's a sign of something's going on upstairs, they're holding you out, they don't want you to get hurt if they wanna choose you. So I remember one day,

still wasn't in the lineup and we come in, we have a night game in Iowa, they have a day game in Chicago and I see some skinny lanky kid playing second base for the Cubs. That skinny lanky kid was DJ LeMahieu So he turned out, he probably made the right choice then too. But we were going to, we had a four game set in Omaha, which is the Royals AAA and ⁓ they had a bunch of good pitching and a bunch of hard throwers coming out of that bullpen. This is the...

Jeff Perro (42:24)
Yeah.

Bobby Scales (42:38)
The Jeremy Jeffress, I think Hochevar was still up and down at that point. I could be wrong on that, but they had some dudes and they were bringing it. And I had a great series in Omaha. I was like five or six for 17. I had a couple of homers. I remember I had a grand slam. you know, I stole a couple of bases in that series. Had a boatload of RBIs and we had a kid named Bryan Lahair on our team. had, and Clint Robinson was on the other team. And usually Japan, they're looking for corner power guys or,

Jeff Perro (43:06)
Right.

Bobby Scales (43:06)
You know,

power pitchers, right? And that's usually what ends up over there. So I had a great series and I thought they were looking at those two guys, which they were. But what I didn't realize is there was a team over there, Nippon Ham, that had their second baseman, Kinsuke Tanaka, broke his leg sliding into second, probably like ⁓ a week, 10 days before that. And so they needed a second baseman to fill the gap. And I was playing primarily second base on that, on that Iowa club that year. and so we're driving back from ⁓

from Omaha to Iowa, two hour drive, door to door. And my agent calls and says, hey, do you have any interest in planning in Japan? I'm like, yeah, of course. And so sure enough, man, it went quick. The whirlwind was quick. From that first conversation to the time I touched down in Tokyo and joined the team, it was nine days.

Jeff Perro (43:38)
Right.

Bobby Scales (43:59)
just, you

Jeff Perro (43:59)
How was that first

experience in Japan for you?

Bobby Scales (44:02)
⁓ awesome. It's, it's so, it's funny. Nippon Ham is in Hokkaido. It's in the northernmost ⁓ island of Japan, and the city's in Sapporo. So, but they were on the road and they were on the road, a 10 game road trip in Tokyo. So I met the team in Tokyo on the road.

Jeff Perro (44:04)
The culture of the game.

Bobby Scales (44:22)
And then I played there, I worked out with the team for three or four days. Then my translator and myself ended up going to Korea to get my visa. And that's what sped the process up. Normally you find a, you find a city that's close to you. go to the Japanese embassy there or you go to a Japanese embassy somewhere and you get the visa and then you travel over. What, what they did is just kind of circumvented the process by getting me over there. And then I had to go to another country. I had to go to Korea to get my visa. So that's why it was so quick.

we end up,

going there and then I came back. But when I got back, met, like I said, I met the team in Seibu which is a suburban Tokyo club. And they had a guy named Mayo Fernandez. Now Mayo Fernandez got a cup of coffee in like, I want to say 2003 or four with the Montreal Expos. And then after that, he found his way over to Asia and he was like a nine year veteran at that point in Asian baseball. And I said, Hey man, you know, he came gave me a big welcome. How you doing? Nice to see you there and everything.

and he said, Hey, you think, know, baseball? I was like, well, I mean, I'm no expert, but I'm, you know, I'm one of the, I've done it. You know, I'm pretty, pretty good. I know what I'm doing. I know how to play. I'm a professional. goes, okay, here's the deal. And I'm 33, 33 years old at this point. He says, okay, here's the deal. Listen, everything you know about the game. There's a trash can in that dugout put it in a trash can and open your mind because they don't do it the same here And.

Jeff Perro (45:30)
I've done it.

You

Bobby Scales (45:51)
Those are the no truer words have ever been spoken in any context ever because there's uniforms, there's bats and gloves. The positions are the same, but the game strategy, the way they go about it, the way they train the game is a completely different animal and it is fascinating. And so I loved the experience.

Jeff Perro (46:08)
I know there's guys that

go over there and struggle and hate it and have a terrible experience. Maybe they needed a Mayo Fernandez to go up to them and tell them to throw their baseball knowledge in the trash and they could have helped out a few of them.

Bobby Scales (46:18)
You have

to open your mind and let go. Because if you don't, you will not make it. You're going to be exposed to different things, different ways of thinking about things, different ways of... I mean, different ways of taking batting practice. The entire experience is something like you've never seen. And the guys who are open-minded, who have a growth mindset, ⁓ they survive. The guys who don't, they don't. Those are the ones you hear about. They're on the big league team for...

two weeks, three weeks a month, and then they're in the Japanese minor leagues for the rest of time they're there.

I think part of it is like, I wanna go over here, I wanna experience it. This is not a tourist experience. You're there to ball, you're there to play well. And like, that's the first thing. But the second thing is, you have to be there to play well with the intention, with the understanding they're gonna ask you to do different things, things you're not used to. ⁓ So as long as you can do that, as long as you can operate in a growth mindset, it could be a very good experience for you.

I went to spring training, I came back and I signed with the Cubs again. And then that situation didn't look good for me at the AAA level. I don't know what was gonna happen. just said, look, went into, Oneri Fleita was still the farm director at the time. I said, Oneri, we, you this is our fourth year together now. Like this doesn't look good. Can I get my release? And so Theo had taken over at that point.

⁓ and he caught the L and deal was fine. Like I got a release. And then I think, I think the next day, a friend of mine, Corey Wimberley actually broke his hand in spring training with the Mets and he was slated to play, ⁓ to go to AAA, to go to Buffalo with that club. And they needed a guy and my agent reached out and it worked out and, ended up, ⁓ signing over there with them, ⁓ for Wally Backman and his club and, ⁓ in Buffalo, that was great playing with Wally. he, he, he talked about a character, man, and the guy who loved the game.

Little rough around the edges, I loved him and he was fantastic. And the guys who play for him did too. ⁓ Another good team though, Matt Harvey was on that team. Jeurys Familia was on that team. Kirk Nieuwenhuis was on that team. So it's a bunch of, a bunch of future big leaguers were on that club.

Jeff Perro (48:26)
Wally Backman I'd love to have him on the show. You're the second guy I've talked to that played for Wally Backman. They said he's the perfect AAA manager.

Bobby Scales (48:34)
It's he's going to treat you like a grown man. It's no nonsense baseball, no BS. He doesn't want to hear any excuses. If he if you do something well, he's going to patch you on the rear end, love you up. If if you if you don't and you walk in and you own it, he'll leave you alone. If you don't if you don't do something well and you walk in and you make excuses, he's going to eat you alive. So it was pretty cut and dry, pretty straightforward. I loved it. I loved him. He's you know, I know. Listen, the perfect man. He is not. But none of us are.

But for me, he was great. ⁓ I learned he's savant level, intelligent in terms of baseball. ⁓ He knew the game and he could run a game from a manager seat too, man. It's just, you know, look, there's some things that, you I know he got the big league job at one point and unfortunately some things came out that weren't as, you know, they weren't as favorable for him, but it wasn't because he didn't know what he was doing. So.

Jeff Perro (49:21)
it.

Bobby Scales (49:29)
⁓ But he was a good baseball man and I appreciated my six, seven weeks with him.

Jeff Perro (49:36)
Alright, that's part one. Sit back, take a deep breath, the dust settle, and then head on over to part two where Bobby talks at length about his incredible post-playing career. The things that this guy has been a part of in the professional baseball world is incredible.

Head on over for part two.