Jason Michaels Teaches More Than Hitting and Pitching, He Teaches the Mental Side of the Game

 10-year MLB veteran Jason Michaels is now running a training center in Tampa called The Big League Approach. In addition to the usual pitch-hit-field curriculum, Michaels' teachings include the mental side of the game.

 https://thebigleagueapproach.com/

https://www.facebook.com/bigleagueapproach 

Transcript

Jeff Perro (00:11)
Hello everybody, I'm Jeff Perro the host of Catch Up with JP. This episode, I will be talking to Mr. Jason Michaels. Mr. Michaels spent about a decade in the big leagues as an outfielder

Since retiring, he's opened a training center in Tampa called the Big League Approach. They take a different approach to things than the typical training center,

So Mr. Michaels is going be on our show today. We'll talk about his amateur professional career. We'll catch up with him see what he's been up to since retirement. So without further ado, here is Mr. Jason Michaels.

Jeff Perro (00:52)
Welcome, Mr. Michaels.

Jason (00:53)
Hey, thanks for having me.

Jeff Perro (00:56)
So you were from Tampa, went to Tampa Jesuit High School, which has a good baseball history, good sports and everything history.

then you continued your career, Okaloosa- Walton Community College for a couple years, and then you really had a heck of a two-year career at University of Miami.

Jason (01:14)
Yeah, yeah, mean good enough to put me in the Hall of Fame down there. And it was a lot of fun. We had a really fun team.

Jeff Perro (01:19)
Yeah.

Good enough to get you drafted in the fourth round.

Jason (01:26)
Yeah, I've been drafted, out of five possible times I was drafted four. Four of the five. So meaning when you, I got drafted out of high school and then you can get drafted after your freshman year in junior college and after your sophomore year and then I end up signing with the Phillies after my senior year with down at University of Miami.

Jeff Perro (01:52)
each time that you're drafted you wanted to not sign and continue your college career.

Jason (01:58)
Yeah, it, you know, each time I just, knew I wasn't ready, although I feel like probably my best season in college was probably my junior season, my first year at Miami. I, I was drafted by the Cardinals in the 15th round and you know, they didn't really offer me too much money. I was getting a bigger scholarship to go to Miami.

So I figured I'd be giving money up and education. I didn't want to do that. And I decided to go back for my senior year and end up going higher. I had to sign or I was going to go to play independent ball. But no fortunate enough that I was able to be drafted by the Phillies and then work my way up in that system.

Jeff Perro (02:44)
you didn't think you were ready to start professional baseball with a physical thing. Was it a up here thing a little bit of both?

Jason (02:50)
Yeah, it was more it was more mental than it was physical, and then getting into minor league baseball is tough. you're playing against guys, you know, everybody's good, everybody pitchers, hitters, competitions, very high. I just felt that I wasn't mentally ready yet until after my senior year and turn out being a good, you know, a good decision for me.

it's funny because I see guys that are drafted out of high school and you can tell the maturity level between guys out of high school and guys out of college. Not necessarily physical-ish, but more mental.

Jeff Perro (03:28)
I was an idiot when I graduated high school at 17 years old. I matured a lot those first four years out of the house. I know it's the same with any other career field. So you got drafted by the Philadelphia Phillies. You worked your way up to their minor league system. You made your major league debut on April 6, 2001 as a pinch runner. How was that getting to the big leagues?

Jason (03:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

It was, I mean, what a ride. As with, I feel like any job, you got to work your way up. And I was able to do that, end up getting an opportunity up with the big team and wanted to stay there. So, you know, a lot of my focus was trying to figure out how to stay here. I did not want to go down. It's a much better environment up in the big leagues.

Jeff Perro (04:09)
You did.

Jason (04:18)
It was very exciting and I wanted to stay up there. So had to figure out a way to stay up there and you know, keep me

producing, because if you don't produce, you're not going to be around.

Jeff Perro (04:28)
you become pretty easily to be replaced if you don't work hard to stay up.

Jason (04:32)
Absolutely,

Jeff Perro (04:35)
But you did.

You found a way to be valuable to several organizations over a 10-year career. What was it that kept you in the big leagues, that separated you from these younger guys coming up?

Jason (04:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, good question. mean, there's, you know, 30, 40 guys vying for your position. And to me, it was it was the mental side having a, know, just having a good mental approach to the game, dealing with the failures in this game. There's a lot more negative results than there are positive and not letting those get you down. Stay, you know.

Working and and learning and trying to figure out how to slow the game down even more

Jeff Perro (05:21)
You succeeded something to separate yourself from the pack for 10 years. That's a long career. You see the stats of X percent of the players that play in high school or college make it to the big leagues. The average playing career, once they get there, I think it's a less than a season. To stand out for 10 years, that's quite a career. you move around Indians to

the Pirates to the Astros and Then you ended your career with that with the Nationals' organization So you you were a successful Major leaguer how did you recognize that the end of your playing career was coming up soon and were you prepared with an Option when the time came

Jason (06:03)
So when I knew I was going so let's see this was 2012 The Nationals signed me and I went to spring training with them and my only way to make that team was to make it out of spring training and You know was right there at the cut. I didn't make it I end up they end up signing me back to be a player So I went to AAA

And was dealing with some personal stuff back at home. And I just kind of, I kind of just lost that, that fight and that drive that kept me at that highest level for the, for the longest time. I ended up talking to the Nationals kind of halfway through that season and let them know that I was, that I was done.

that I was gonna retire and they were like, well listen, the whole organization loves you. And it was, which was crazy because I was just with this organization, I mean, just got to that organization. So still learning a lot of the people, the coaches, a lot of the players, but a lot of the front office people as well.

Jeff Perro (07:08)
This world is a small world and you were a known product. By that time, you might not have shaken hands with members of the Nats organization, but they knew who you were. You had your reputation.

Jason (07:19)
They did and

they saw the value that I brought and they asked me to say, listen, we'd love to have you come back during the season and just move your stuff from the players locker room to the coaches locker room. And I'm like, okay, because I do wanna help the younger guys. I want to help the younger guys play better baseball, and the stuff that I learned.

and end up coming back that season 2012 finished out as being a coach. They signed me the next year as a.

Jeff Perro (07:52)
What

was your title? Are you just coach or is there a title with that?

Jason (07:57)
When they

signed me when they signed me back in 2013, they signed me as a player coach and said, listen, we don't really have a title for you, but we would love for you to be around kind of be the mental, the mental mentor to the younger guys. And so they had me around the rookie ball guys, which was guys, you know, guys signed out of, you know, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, high school kids that were.

you know, really good talent and they were signed and they wanted me around those young guys to help them learn in what it means to be a professional, how to act like a professional and how to go about doing your business and working and getting ready. And it really took off. really did well. We had a pretty good, we had a good coaching staff there. The rookie ball team ended up going, they ended up winning the championship, going 52 and nine.

It was a lot of fun. So they ended up sending me to the other minor league teams in the organization because of the success that we were having. And I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. it was tough for me to devote that time away from family. So you were talking about transitioning. And it took me a couple of years after I was done coaching, I started to think about, I'm like, hey,

Jeff Perro (08:52)
Thank you guys.

Jason (09:21)
I know baseball. I can help kids. Even if they're not professional, I can help kids five, six, seven years old and on. And so I end up starting this academy that's called the Big League Approach where I got a couple of cages, a couple of indoor cages, and I really focus on the hitting and the fielding and really doing the mental side, which is huge because

Jeff Perro (09:50)
So it

separates you from, yeah, that's what separates you.

Jason (09:51)
Nobody ever. Yeah.

on my way up learning everything about baseball. Nobody talks to you about the the mental side. How to deal with the failures because this game is all about negative results. Like I said before, it's just all about negative results and how you deal with them.

Jeff Perro (10:09)
You're a hitter and you

fail 70 % of the time, you're good. But that includes failing 70 % of the time.

Jason (10:15)
And I've seen I've played with guys against guys were just incredible talent You know big league talent everything, but they just could not Sustain or they couldn't be consistent in dealing with those those negative results and so That's what led me to open up the Big League Approach and a lot of my focus is on that the mental side and in

Coming up with a with a mental plan with the mental approach not only to hitting but to base running to defense I even I even work with a lot of pitchers as well, too Because the pitchers will come and say hey, what does a guy what? What are you looking for? know and just you know being able to talk with them. There's a lot of There's a lot of similarities mentally beach with between hitting and pitching two different acts But there's a lot of similarities with the mental approach

Jeff Perro (11:11)
Same failure. If you're a hitter, at least get time to go sit in the dugout, go out to the field, get your head straight for your next at bat. If you're a pitcher, the next at bats immediately. So yeah, there's similar recovery from failure aspects from pitching to hitting. You mentioned family. You had wife and kids

Jason (11:31)
do. have three kids and married

I've been involved in this game for 40 plus years. And I look back, the, the talent is there a lot. There's a lot of kids with great hand-eye coordination, I'm not worried about that to me, what separates the player to that next level from the next level or from the

the players of his competition is the mental side. And that's really one of the main focuses of what I teach and how I coach. like I said, having some really good results. think it's something that organizations, they do it. I learn more from my teammates. I learn more from the guys that have been there and have done that.

that have actually stood in the box, you know, with the game on the line and big situations and learning from them is what to me kept me at the highest level for as long as long as I did. Just because nowadays the average length of career for a major leaguer is continuing to go down. it's just it again, it's a business. It is what it is.

and you gotta perform. If you don't perform, you're out. you'll get passed around. There's so much need for this and I feel like the players now, especially at the highest level, are being taught too much mechanics too much swing mechanics and not enough this, the mental side.

Jeff Perro (13:05)
So what you guys are doing over at Big League Approach, from what I read about, it seems very personalized. You seem like you do a very personalized thing with your kids. Your first meeting with them is off the field or outside of a baseball.

Jason (13:06)
I haven't heard that in a long time.

Jeff Perro (13:24)
setting is what it says. That's unique.

Jason (13:28)
It is, you know, there, there, there are quite a few, hitting coaches in the, the area. And what separates me from them is the importance of that mental side and being able to teach and coach these players, not only baseball, but also softball too.

Working on the mental side of that game not only but also with the physical and the mechanical parts of the swing but Dealing with that mental side and putting it all together and keeping it consistent. That's what I want to see as a coach I want to see my hitters my fielders just be consistent. That's what any coach wants to see

Jeff Perro (14:03)
you just have a very personalized approach. from the videos that I saw on your website, the Big League Approach and your Facebook page it just seems like you take pride in that individual connection

Jason (14:16)
do, I do. And I really enjoy it. I feel like I get a lot out of that one-on-one, that private side, and I'm able to talk with the parents as well too, because the parents are gonna be an extension. Although a lot of parents bring their kids in and they're like, my son or my daughter is not listening to me. And we need some help here.

Jeff Perro (14:37)
There's a reason for that sometimes.

Their approach isn't big league when they're communicating with their kids about baseball. And with parents, it seems like you have to coach the parents how to coach.

Jason (14:45)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Perro (14:53)
as well

Jason (14:53)
Ish, mean, I think there's a fine line there between coach and parents and maybe trying to tell them how to parent their kid. I'm not here to tell them how to parent their kid, you know what saying? I think we as players, put enough pressure on ourselves to perform so that we don't disappoint our parents or we don't want our parents disappointed at us. And I talk about that a lot.

And a lot of the kids are telling me, I don't want them disappointed in me. They're not gonna be disappointed in you. They want the same thing that I do as a coach. I just want you to go up there and attack that ball. If you swing at a bad pitch, I don't care. We all swing at bad pitches. the best ones in the game swing at bad pitches. I want these kids to swing the bat, be aggressive and have fun.

Jeff Perro (15:49)
And that goal should align with the parent's goal, hopefully. That they want to see their kids have fun and that breeds success from there.

Jason (15:52)
You're right. You're right.

Jeff Perro (15:56)
Kind of standardized questions that I want to get answers from everybody I talk to you now you're 47 years old, correct? pretty Forty-eight. Okay. So so now if you could Have a magic telephone conversation with Jason Michaels as a junior in high school What advice would you give that young man in regards to his baseball career? high school community college college drafted professional baseball

Jason (16:04)
48.

Jeff Perro (16:27)
Is there anything that you would have done different that you wish you'd have known?

Jason (16:31)
You know, I would love to meet somebody like me with my experience and to listen to them.

You know, it was a grind. It was a real grind. You have to love it. If you don't love it, then it's going to be hard. I think when I set goals, you know, people talk about goals a lot and about setting goals and I, and I remember dad doing that with me and I looked back at it and I didn't really set goals too much. think in my mind, I put my goal is I want

to play at the next level. But I gotta take care of today. kinda cliche, but I try to stay in the present more than thinking of in the future, which was hard because, I mean, when you're in high school or you're in college, you got a lot of scouts come into games and we put even more pressure on ourselves, like, I gotta get a hit or I gotta hit a home run so this scout will see me.

that'll like me. And that just puts so much more pressure. that's one thing I didn't handle well. You know, being young and not having any life experience.

Jeff Perro (17:40)
the main

focus is of what you're teaching now is being able to handle pressure. So that's great that you've you've diagnosed that problem there and now you're trying to resolve it for the next generation.

Jason (17:43)
Right.

Mm-hmm, absolutely. I think, just keeping and trusting a consistent approach, keeping it simple. It's so easy in this game to make it complicated, and it's already hard enough to hit. We don't need to make it any harder. And I'm trying to keep it simple, and I think that's kind of where the state of the game right now in the major leagues is going, and it's bleeding down into

the colleges and somewhat in high school that all they're trying to do is hit a home run every time. I'm like, you have to resist that urge. you do that, you're not gonna have a high batting average. I tell you that right now. I want a guy that is a complete hitter. So a guy that hits for high average, the high home runs would be a bonus

Jeff Perro (18:31)
Thanks, Uwe.

Jason (18:43)
you know somebody that gets on base Somebody that doesn't strike out that does you know that really grinds out two strikes? I feel like that's a next level player for me

Jeff Perro (18:55)
and the things that's changed. I'm 46. My oldest child is five. So there's a large gap between how things have changed from when I was coming up to when he's coming up. it used to be you taught players how to win games,

And that was what was successful getting you next level. But now, see a lot of performing on the baseball field is for social media, which might help me get recruited to the next level. Whereas before it used to just be kind of simple. If you knew how to win ball games and help your team, that would help you get to the next level.

Jason (19:27)
Yeah, I completely get it. And you hit the nail on the head with that question. A couple of things too that, yes, I think players nowadays, especially with social media, they're so focused on their brand, you know, especially as they get higher up. And I think that, you know, it's a lot of look at me, look at me type deal, you know, and that's something that we didn't have to deal with when we were coming up.

I know that would be tough, and then on the question about the winning, you know, there's a lot of coaches nowadays and I'm trying to get it out here. people have asked me a lot, hey, why don't you coach a team? Why don't you coach a team like a travel ball team or something like that? And I said, honestly, I don't want to.

Jeff Perro (20:10)
Goldmine.

Jason (20:12)
I feel I get more out of the player of the one-on-one or the small groups, these some of these coaches nowadays are so gung-ho about winning like it's all about winning. I'm in player development. I want to develop the players so my goal if I were to coach a team is

Jeff Perro (20:27)
Yeah, and that's what it used to be.

Jason (20:32)
I'm developing these players and if we develop them, if I develop them right and we do the things right, we're going to be in positions to win. You know, but you also have some parents that are gung-ho about it too. Like, no, my son's got to go or my daughter's got to go to this team because they win. You know, and it gets very expensive too. A lot of the traveling around, I mean, very expensive. I want to say it's, you know, probably north of 20,000 some of these.

family spend, know, just on travel baseball.

Jeff Perro (21:05)
baseball guy. I grew up around baseball. I played baseball. I worked in baseball. Everything's baseball, baseball, baseball. And going back to me and my life and my kids, I never wanted to have kids. My wife, she talked me into it. It's the best thing in the world. But I went 30 years not paying any attention to youth baseball at all, I worked with younger professional baseball players, no big deal, I didn't pay attention to it. And now all of sudden, after 30 years of not looking at it,

I have to look at it because I've got kids I care about. So I didn't get to see the gradual change in the youth game. was just like, holy crap, this is eye opening. This is crazy that this is really you're spending every weekend away hotels, tournament fees on top of equipment. Baseball is the most expensive game you can play. I could hand my son a soccer ball and say, all right, we're playing soccer now.

geared up for a baseball team, that's an expense. And that's sad that that can pull potential great baseball players, passionate baseball people away from the game.

Jason (22:08)
Yeah, it is. you know, you're going to do anything you can for your kids. And if your son or your daughter has an interest in something, I mean, we're going to back them. You know, we're going to we're going to do what we can do. Absolutely, absolutely. And we're going to, you know, back them. And I think it does get expensive. think kids, you know, and I'm in Florida.

Jeff Perro (22:21)
If he wants to do ballet, that's fine. Sure, go for it.

Jason (22:35)
which is, I mean, that's year round, you're year round with baseball, but I think kids need to play other sports. They need to learn other sports.

Jeff Perro (22:43)
Learn the coordination of other sports that can translate into baseball. improve your skills without working on your skills.

Jason (22:44)
you know, I'm trying to

Yes, you said it right.

Right, right. And there's other ways to win. There's other sports, right? And the coordination, you're right. And I think baseball players do a good job of adjusting to other sports coordination wise. kids, they need to learn to play other sports.

Jeff Perro (23:10)
One of the players I talked to, Jim Rushford, played in the big leagues of the Brewer's, you familiar with Mr. Rushford?

Jason (23:18)
Yeah, we were teammates. With the Phillies. Yeah.

Jeff Perro (23:20)
Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Cause he was with the Phillies for a long time. So I talked to Jim Rushford a couple weeks ago. Great conversation. And he said, he didn't have a signing bonus. He traveled at his own expense to go to Indie Ball tryouts, worked his way through Indie Ball, touched the big leagues for a little bit, ended up with the Phillies. And one of the things that he said was because financial aspects were key to his decision making. So

He played winter ball every year to pay the bills. you play your regular season, you play winter ball with Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Mexico, to make ends meet. And he said He wishes he would have gotten into a trade so that he could turn off his brain from baseball for more months of the off season to get your brain a break from baseball. And that goes back to, like you said, playing year round as a, a immature kid. He talked about how it was a struggle for him as a 30 year old man.

Jason (24:15)
Yeah, completely, absolutely, I completely agree with that. I know at the end of the seasons, mean, especially in Major League Baseball, the season is so long and it's such a grind. I six month season, you have three days off a month, you know, and with all the traveling back and forth, you know, you'll go East Coast, West Coast, and you get in at crazy times. And yes, I remember at the end of the season, I would just feel like I'd,

Jeff Perro (24:16)
So yeah, to get that mental break from this world.

Jason (24:45)
just lay around and kind of just try to turn my brain off and if I'm able to take a trip just to get away from it. it was something that as I got older, I was always focused on baseball and it was there and I didn't want to lose the focus. I didn't want to lose my edge.

you know, there's some natural baseball players. I mean, there are not many of them. Because I think the majority of us, have to work. We have to work to get to that next level and to stay at that next level, which is even harder. When you get there, they always say it's doable to get to the big leagues if you're a professional, but it's really hard to stay there.

And I you know, it's I think it's even more so now I'm seeing in baseball if there's such a turnover I mean you have there's plenty of talent out there and As with any job if you produce you stay if you don't we're gonna get somebody else and that's that's the cruel part It is what it is. you know just trying to to stay

focused and figure out and try to keep your edge.

Jeff Perro (25:51)
Now, my second question, I feel like you're going to have a great answer. It's going to blow my socks off If you have that same magic telephone, and you can call yourself, say, 2009, 10, 11, and you know that Jason Michaels is going to prepare for that next step outside of a baseball playing career, what advice could you give that

Slightly less young man to prepare for the next step of leaving baseball.

Anything that you wish you would have known when you left the game to make that transition easier for you.

Jason (26:27)
I again, I was really focused on baseball and I was trying to stay in the present as much as I can. think, yes, life after baseball. But I felt like if I did that, I was going to lose my edge, and I would say the older you get, the more you know, the more grind, the more

Jeff Perro (26:40)
double-edged sword is that.

Jason (26:50)
The more you got to find your edge even more because you got your competing with guys now 10, 12, 15 years younger than you. And I would say you need to find another gear to stay in it.

Jeff Perro (27:06)
Now it's 2013 and you leave spring training with the Nats and you retired in middle of that season What advice do wish that you'd known on that day when you handed in your retirement papers and you are now into that next step? Do you feel like you would not change a thing going from the Nationalist to starting your own thing?

Jason (27:27)
I was, no, you know what?

I was fine. I was fine with it. I feel like I lost it in my heart a little bit, but I also gained that I was able to still help guys. And that's what I really wanted to do was to be able to help younger players get to their next level and to be more consistent. I was, it kind of took a load off my shoulders, be honest with you. It's a grind.

in baseball, again, dealing with the negative results year in, year out. mean, that's all you're dealing with. And I used to tell other guys, said, hey, want to play some adult baseball? I said, no, I don't want to do that. I made my quota of outs. I'm done with that. Now I want to help other guys. And I'm really, really enjoying what I'm doing now with the Big League Approach. I'm really enjoying that. really, I feel like I'm making an impact.

with players and young players as well too. Now I got a wide range of ages that I work with, but I really enjoy what I do. I really do. I enjoy going to work.

Jeff Perro (28:37)
I'm glad you

said it. I would rather hear you say that than hear you say, yeah, it was, I was a mess. I was a headcase when I left the game. I had no income. I was struggling. So I'm glad to hear that you jumped on it and you're doing well.

Jason (28:52)
It took me a couple years though, and I needed some help from my wife and she really, really backed me and helped me get to that next level is transitioning into the business world and trying to figure out what I wanted to do and really enjoy. So I owe it a lot to her and help her pushing me through.

going back to the state of the game right now, whereas...

Jeff Perro (29:23)
I've been gone

for decade too, so what the state of the game is right now might be different than it was 10 years ago.

Jason (29:29)
It is. I'm telling I know it is. I think that the organizations are getting away from the ex player. And I learned a lot from the veteran players teaching me what it means to be a professional, how to be a professional, what I need to do in this journey to try to stay at the highest level. And I feel that, you know, the average age is really coming down.

and on these minor league teams or minor league organizations. And I feel like the way the respect of the game is somewhat lacking. I mean, you start to see a lot of, you know, bat flips and it just drives me nuts. I don't feel like that's a good respect, but I, you know, they talked about this message a few years ago, let the kids play. I'm like, what does that mean?

You still need to respect, you gotta respect the game, you gotta respect your opponent, respect your teammates. I feel like it's getting a little bit out of hand now. I'm probably gonna, everybody's gonna go, look at this grumpy old man, you know? But it's just the way I was brought up and I really appreciated that I came up, And the Phillies organization really helped me with that. What it means to be a professional, what it means to be a major leaguer.

and how to go about my business that way.

Jeff Perro (30:54)
I don't have any scientific evidence behind this, but researching this project and kind of finding where guys are now and what they're doing now and going through the minor league organizations, AAA managers down to roving infield instructors. It seems like it is different than was 10 years ago. Your average AA team, if you have a manager, pitching coach, hitting coach, two of those guys are going to be at least AAA experienced players. Nowadays,

You you look at, I looked across all these AA coaching staffs, there's five coaches now and still maybe two of those five have significant playing experience. And when you said that about how it being different and the veterans around you, it seems like maybe those two things are correlated because the coaching staff seem like there's professional baseball experience on them now. And maybe that carries over to how the younger players are being.

taught the right way. But yeah, it's just funny that you said it, I noticed that. I'm like, it's just weird now. It's different now.

Jason (31:51)
I completely agree.

It is and it's, mean, I know that times are changing, I get it.

But, you know, there needs to be respect of the game. I, know, more of these organizations now are putting more money into analytics, which I'm fine with, but that's not how you run an organization. You can't run an organization or run a team solely on analytics.

Jeff Perro (32:22)
You can't, you can't, can't, can't,

Jason (32:25)
And there's numerous examples out there, I feel that, you know, that it was an analytic decision, then it was a coaching decision, a human decision.

Jeff Perro (32:31)
There's no replacement for experience.

There's no replacement for experience in any job field. I there's no replacement for experience in being coached from people with experience.

Jason (32:46)
Mm-hmm.

I just, I want to be able to help and educate players. Bottom line.

Jeff Perro (32:53)
You're

doing virtual stuff now, right? You don't have to live in Tampa.

Jason (32:55)
And I do correct.

So I mean, I've been doing it a lot for some of my pro guys and my college college players. They'll have, after a weekend, I'll be able to get some video if they're able to get me some. And then we'll go over and we're actually, you know, either go into a cage or if it's if it's a little mechanical issue, which is most likely it's up here, we can just use a tee But but yeah, I can I can do virtual so that yeah, that gives me a chance to

to reach more people.

Jeff Perro (33:25)
One question I'm going to ask you, how is spearfishing going? I read about the lore of you

Jason (33:29)
Yeah, I don't know.

I was messing around one time and somebody asked me a question. And what do you do in your spare time? And I was just messing around. was being a smart butt and I was like, I spearfish, which I've never done before, which I would like to learn. I mean, it's kind of fun. It looks fun. It's fun to do.

And somebody wrote it down and said, all right, we're going to put this in your bio. And I'm like, what? I didn't mean that. You know, was at the time it was a joke. I didn't think they were being serious. Well, anyways, no, I mean, which I wouldn't mind learning. I really would. actually have. Right.

Jeff Perro (34:06)
I don't fish fish, but

just read that story that was great. And I wrote it down. I like, I have to ask Jason Michaels how his spearfishing is going.