Former Brewer and Author of The Pizza Guy Delivers, Jim Rushford

The man's story needed to be told and there was no one better to do it than himself. So Jim Rushford wrote "The Pizza Guy Delivers." Undrafted out of college, to delivering pizzas, to indy ball, to Milwaukee. Fascinating story.

The book is available on Amazon. 

Transcript

Jeff Perro (00:10)
Hello everybody, this is Jeff Perro Welcome to another episode of Catch Up with JP. Today's guest is Mr. Jim Rushford. Mr. Rushford played 14 years of professional baseball, spent 27 days in the Big Loots. Crazy interesting story of how he got to the Big Loots. So interesting, he wrote a book about it. There's a quote in the book, says something like, know, I wrote this book because I I felt like it had a very interesting story.

But I sat on it for a decade because I didn't really think maybe my story is not more interesting than anybody else's. Guarantee it is. Pick up this book. I've actually read it twice. It's fascinating story about this gentleman's life, not just his career, but his life. I recommend you pick it up. It's available on Amazon. I have a link to it. But without further ado, welcome to the show, Mr. Jim Rushford, 2002 Milwaukee Brewer and author of this book, The Pizza Guy Delivers.

Jeff Perro (01:11)
I'll tell you, usually when you discuss a player's baseball career, it's kind of a straight line. I went to high school, I went to college, got drafted, A-ball, AA, AAA, big leagues. You are anything but a straight line. I didn't even know where to start. Give us a little walkthrough about how you got to the big leagues from...

not being drafted after college to delivering pizzas to Milwaukee.

Jim Rushford (01:38)
It was a crazy ride and it was one in a million and I'm really lucky but you know coming out of high school

Jeff Perro (01:46)
You worked your tail off, buddy. There's a place

that you can say luck some things, but I don't see a lot of luck involved in yours. There's a lot of hard work.

Jim Rushford (01:55)
Yeah, I mean, you just gotta

put your head down and keep going until something works out. But, know, through high school, I had like probably the same kind of career that anyone who made it would have had. Like I was an all-state player in high school and I had a D1 scholarship to San Diego State. in college, I played my four years, but I was mediocre at best. Things just never

came together before he never really clicked, and the four years came and went, and I wasn't drafted, and I just moved on.

Jeff Perro (02:29)
You

were a decent pitcher, a decent hitter, kind of through your college career as a two-way player.

Jim Rushford (02:33)
I'm a two way

player. I was probably better at pitching than hitting the left handed pitcher. So, you know, you have little advantage there. Coming out of college, I could have played independent ball and I thought, I didn't really understand what independent ball was. just thought, well, you know, I guess I got to move on to the next chapter in life. I finished school and started looking for jobs and

I got a job as a roofer in San Diego, a hot summer, built the roof of a Kmart for $7 an hour. And I'm like, what the heck am I doing this for? I could make the same money to play baseball at least.

Jeff Perro (03:15)
Yeah, right, really. The money and independent ball is not a lot, especially back in those days.

Jim Rushford (03:18)
It's

not a lot, but $7 an hour to, you know, in the hot sun and be a roofer, was it, you know, any better? That's for sure. I decided the next year to go out and try and make an independent team. I eventually landed on a team and had a great time and did really well.

improved a lot as a player also. The time off really did me some good. gave me new perspective on things and The following year, I did make a team again, but I was having arm problems. I made the team as a pitcher and I got released. So I thought, well, now I'm really done. And again, I worked a lot of odd jobs.

some construction stuff. The big one was pizza delivery. I also worked as a bar back and a bouncer and a bus boy, Croce's in downtown San Diego. It was nothing that was going to be a career.

Jeff Perro (04:16)
But nothing that would really miss you if a big league organization came calling.

Jim Rushford (04:20)
No, exactly. I was going to go back to school. I'd graduated and get my teaching credential. I have the PE major or, know, kinesiology if you want to make it sound a little smarter. But I didn't have the credential, so was working towards that. But then I just, I wanted to play baseball again.

I got out there and I did a little semi-pro and it went really well. So I'm like, know, let me just give this thing one more shot. And I went unannounced to try out in Schaumburg, Illinois for the Schaumburg Flyers in the Northern League, Yeah. And I just, you know, I did, I just killed it and I was just kind of, took, they took me on the team. Not really.

Jeff Perro (04:57)
Heck of a trip from San Diego.

Jim Rushford (05:09)
I was like the probably the one guy they didn't plan on making it that made it type of thing. I just, I played a few years in a more of independent, but I did really well. sure enough, my very first coach, RC Lichtenstein, who's.

Jeff Perro (05:24)
It was

actually the pitching coach for Montgomery Biscuits in 2012, 13, yeah, 2012, 13. So yeah, we know a lot of the same people, that's for sure.

Jim Rushford (05:27)
Okay, right, yeah.

He spent forever.

That time before he got the D-Rays, his first gig was out independent ball was with the Brewers. And he's like, you know, we're cleaning house here. We're starting all over. We need a guy who can just show the younger guys like the ropes, but be a good example and stuff. And he's like, I think I can get you in, you know? And I'm like, okay, that'd be great. know, I didn't.

think it was gonna materialize, but sure enough, he came through for me and the Brewers signed me and brought me to spring training. So I'm like, yeah, I'm like 27 years old already. So this is like, I would say it's unheard of anymore, almost. I got the shot.

Jeff Perro (06:07)
And you mashed.

Yeah,

everybody's with social media and internet. Everybody's, there's no unknown commodities out there anymore. Everybody's known at some level.

Jim Rushford (06:23)
Right, right.

Exactly. at the time, there was a little room for those long shot stories like that because there wasn't so much information overload all over Once I got there, just made the most of it. I just mashed. I was crushing the ball.

So I like, was leading high A and hitting. So they're like, well, let's give them a shot at AA I, and I killed it in AA So then, know, the next year they put me a AAA and I did really well in AAA too. And what happened that really like where I'd more, where there's a lot of luck is just, if I was on the Yankees or the Red Sox,

I bet the story might end there, you know, but with the Brewers, were on 100 loss season and the prospects weren't doing all that well. And there was an injury, Geoff Jenkins busted his ankle right at the end of the year. between all those things, they gave me a shot and they called me up to the big leagues. And I got my

27 days of service time then. That would have been 2002.

Jeff Perro (07:47)
That's awesome.

So where were you when you got the call?

Jim Rushford (07:52)
I I in Louisville. Louisville and...

Jeff Perro (07:53)
Remember? Okay.

Jim Rushford (07:57)
It was the last game of the season and they called the manager in the dugout and he gave him a little report how he did in the game and they said, right, send them, have them meet the big club in Chicago because they're playing the Cubs. So, know, Chicago is where I grew up and I got to make my major league debut in Wrigley Field and I had grown up a Cubs fan. Of course, I'm on the opposing team now and it's, you know,

Jeff Perro (08:12)
That's awesome.

Jim Rushford (08:25)
Friday night game and they were just, you know, the fans were just heckling me mercilessly.

Jeff Perro (08:33)
You had

to some friends and family in the place though.

Jim Rushford (08:36)
did, but it was like, but it just so happened that like, dozens of people that I just knew from growing up, so it happened to show up to the game. So, know, like, the girl I went to grade school with since kindergarten, she's at the game and you know, she just took a million pictures of me and made a whole photo album for me of that, you know, first game.

Jeff Perro (08:59)
That's awesome.

Jim Rushford (09:00)
great

pictures. I'm so glad I have them.

I mean, it was nerve-racking because, you know, that's, you know, in front of all the people you grew up, you know, your hometown team that it was just like added even more to the pressure of situation. But it was awesome.

Jeff Perro (09:20)
Yeah, yeah,

that's true. I mean, it's what you prepared for. How old you at the time? Twenty nine thirty? Twenty nine?

Jim Rushford (09:28)
So

yeah, don't know if was 28 or 29. I think I was really 29 and they thought I was 28.

Jeff Perro (09:33)
Eh.

I mentioned that. We're definitely going to get to this, but I have your book here in front of me. I read this book three years ago when I bought it. My daughter just turned three, so you can imagine what my life was like exactly three years ago. I probably didn't digest most of it, but I skimmed back through it last night, or last couple nights. I remembered a story about your age was a little questionable. You might have even forgotten how old you are.

Jim Rushford (09:41)
Okay.

So I think I can make a big sense. know, when I took that year off after college, and then it was a roof work, and then I go back the next year to play independent ball, they're like, I'm like, well, why don't I just get that year back for myself? So I just, you know, everything's pencil and paper about that. Yeah, because it's like, there's no sense, you know.

Jeff Perro (10:24)
It was a harmless little, you know, fib.

Jim Rushford (10:31)
There's no really internet yet. There's no central databases. You know, there's like none of that. And I'm thinking, I'm just going to put, you're younger and the scouts will think I just got out of college and if they like me, it'll help my chances of maybe somebody picking me up. And it's just going to go on, you know, the program at the stadium. Something for the little independent league I'm in, you know? But, you know, sure enough, like I...

Jeff Perro (10:51)
The media guy, the program.

Jim Rushford (11:00)
somewhere, you know, I'm now in the system as being a year younger and the few times it's come up over the years, you know, they would just say, don't worry about it. Just nevermind. So like, okay.

Jeff Perro (11:18)
We see your so you had the time in the big leagues with Milwaukee. You had finished the season up in the big club with the Brewers. What happened next? Did you finish the season? Yeah, okay. Okay.

Jim Rushford (11:30)
Well, yeah, that was a September call up. So I didn't finish, but it was a September call up.

The next year, they non-tendered my contract. I went to Texas for spring training and started AAA with them. And they released me. The Brewers took me back. And went back to AAA with the Brewers and got back on track and did well. And then I spent another four years with the Phillies.

mostly all at AAA. I went to big league camp with

Jeff Perro (12:02)
There's

some good reading in the book. The Pizza Guy Delivers, that was almost the most interesting, the whole book is interesting. From the beginning, like I said, your career was not a straight line. But that little time with the Phillies, I know, that time, those four years, just the way you described it in your book was just something to definitely want to read about. It had a little drama to it,

Jim Rushford (12:24)
I yeah,

But yeah, I did get to go to big league camp with both with Texas and with the Phillies a couple of times. my one stint in the big leagues, I hit a home run. So that's kind of like my most cherished moment of my career. And, you know, I got

Jeff Perro (12:43)
You hit as many in 27 days in the big leagues as you did in four years of college, right?

Jim Rushford (12:49)
Yeah, that's right. That's right. I so I didn't I didn't hit a single home run in college till my senior year and it was on a 3-0 take sign and I couldn't understand why he was giving me the take sign I'm like this guy's just gonna you just gonna lay it right in there for me. You know, this is by chance. Well, you know, we're playing University of Hawaii. We having me a blowout game. We're killing them and You know, I didn't know about those unwritten rules like

Jeff Perro (13:04)
He's gonna throw a meatball down the middle.

Jim Rushford (13:17)
You know, like, you you don't like try to run up the score. Yeah, I had no idea. So that's probably why the coach has given me the take sign but I had no idea. I'm like, this screw that This is my chance. And I went with all my might and it barely, connected it barely cleared the fence by like two feet, you know, but, uh, I, know, after college, I did a, I spent a lot of time in the weight room and

Jeff Perro (13:21)
It's stealing second base when you're up 20.

Jim Rushford (13:45)
that extra strength just gave me a ton more power. And there's some things about my swing and just my approach at the plate too that What's funny is some of its way lifting, some of it's hitting in the cages, but I made a lot of improvements just by not playing and that just having a whole new perspective on the game.

Jeff Perro (14:09)
You gave yourself a little rest in this muscle, right?

Jim Rushford (14:11)
Yeah,

and all of sudden, when I came back as an older, more mature person, it all made sense to me. And hitting clicked and everything made sense and it just, it was easy all of a sudden. And I had all that extra power and it just translated into good numbers and got me through to a pretty long career.

Ended up playing like seven years of AAA. I never got another chance in the big leagues, but I put up good numbers for a lot of years in AAA.

Jeff Perro (14:48)
You had a little bit of time in Mexico and some time in independent leagues after that stint with the Phillies. I some stuff highlighted off to the side here that I kind of missed, that kind of breezed over 2000 Team USA. That has to be a heck of an experience.

Jim Rushford (15:02)
That was

Oh yeah, that was awesome. And that was my first time leaving the country. We played in Panama for Pan Am games. And that was a little stroke of luck too because Team USA had just won the gold medal. That was a team with like Ben Sheets. And they won the gold medal. Major League Baseball did not want to send their guys at that point in time. So they went to the independent leagues and they just grabbed independent

Jeff Perro (15:20)
Amazing.

Jim Rushford (15:33)
players and you know our goal was to just we need to place fifth or better and that qualified us for I don't know the Olympics we're the three-way after the round robin we're a three-way tie for first and the way they did the tiebreaker we got kind of screwed and we ended up not being in the

you know, the bracket where you could get a gold medal. So all we could do is get a fifth place. but just getting to be there though. Yeah, that was awesome. You know, because that was a weird situation that even allowed that to happen.

Jeff Perro (16:04)
heck of an experience.

That might be one of the parts of your career that you can kind of chalk up to luck. be in the right place at the right time to get that Team USA invite. Of course, took tons of hard work, like I said, to get there, to create your own luck,

Jim Rushford (16:22)
Yeah.

you know, you have lots of failures along the way, but you learn from them all and you meet people and you network and the more you're out there in front of people, well, the better you get at it, but also the better your odds of being in the right place at the right time. You know, you have to make sure you're giving yourself as many opportunities as possible.

Jeff Perro (16:32)
you

Right.

You create your own luck is my favorite thing. It's a kind of a baseball-rated phrase, but it's also a life phrase. You work hard, the way you treat people gets you further in life and baseball. And also, by the way, breezed over. Now, we crossed paths in 2001

Jim Rushford (16:52)
Yeah.

Definitely.

Jeff Perro (17:09)
I'd forgotten the story because I was the home clubhouse manager for the Birmingham Barons in 2001 when you were with the Huntsville Stars. Now, at end of that season, my memory was foggy, but rereading your book unclogged that. Somehow, I came into, in my storage unit in Colorado, which is 1500 miles away from where live, I have a Jim Rushford game-used Huntsville Stars cap. And in my memory, you guys ended the season with us and we were just kind of throwing stuff in the trash. I was like, I'm going get a couple hats. And one of them said Rushford on the inside.

rereading the book, you guys beat us in the playoffs. You knocked us out of the playoffs. then, and your version of stories in the book, and you can tell as well, but then shortly after we got knocked out of the playoffs and you guys advanced to go play Jacksonville, September 11th. I packed up my clubhouse, went home, woke up a couple of days later to my alarm clock radio with the news. And then,

things happened and the Huntsville Stars and Jacksonville Suns were named co-champions. So did you guys get rings from that?

Jim Rushford (18:15)
I think so? I would have to dig through my memorabilia.

Jeff Perro (18:17)
Okay, okay. Because I was

just saying, that was this close to getting my first championship ring. And man, what a series of events from that. And I ran across, yeah, I followed your career after that. Just like I have everybody that came to the league and everybody in minor league baseball. But somehow I know I have probably 10.

Jim Rushford (18:22)
All right.

Jeff Perro (18:36)
those Huntsville Stars game use hats and maybe one says Pickler maybe one even says Sheets or Hall on it but I just know in my head that the one I can remember says says Rushford on the inside of it so I have that and if I ever get back to Colorado to pick up my storage unit buddy I am sending you a picture of that not the actual hat it's mine now but I'll send you a picture of that

Jim Rushford (18:45)
you

I hope it

smells better than when I last used it.

Jeff Perro (19:01)
It's

been in a storage unit for a minute now. It might have holes in it. don't know. So one of the things that my podcast I focus on is players transition at the end of their career where they kind of realize, okay, it's time to start thinking about life after baseball and what I need to do. But going through your book, I I counted, you had like five of those from college.

Jim Rushford (19:25)
Yeah.

Jeff Perro (19:27)
to a couple of Indy balls, to Mexico, to Chicago White Sox, to Tucson, I think you had five or six of those moments where you're like,

Jim Rushford (19:35)
So I

already kind of did two of them. One was just out of college thinking, I did the best I could, you let's move on. And the second time was getting released out of independent ball really because I was having an arm issue, you know. But then after...

Phillies for four years, nobody in 08, nobody signed me. I'm substitute teaching. I'm living in the Tucson area and this is the last year the White Sox are spring training in Tucson.

You know, the AAA manager for the White Sox is now going to be Mark Bombard, who had been my AAA manager with the Phillies for one season anyway. And he was my manager in Venezuela So like I did get to play in Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Mexico, the Dominican. I got to do them all. It was awesome. I love those experiences. So I drive up, I just drive up to Tucson and I talk to Buddy Bell.

Jeff Perro (20:26)
That's great.

Jim Rushford (20:32)
Who's the player development guy The White Sox And I just talked my way into spring training and, know, so I, and so, you know, he, went to spring training every day and I did great, but at the very last couple of days, they released me. And, know, I was pretty devastated because I knew at that point.

Jeff Perro (20:37)
feel accordingly

Right.

You

Jim Rushford (20:59)
I'm know I'm 33 or 4 years old and I'm

Jeff Perro (21:05)
How healthy were you? Any injuries at the time, 2008?

Jim Rushford (21:08)
No, I was, I was totally

healthy and I was in good shape and I, could have, and I don't think there was any doubt in anyone's mind that I couldn't go to AAA and still do well. But I think the problem is the numbers, the people they had and the number of spots in my age. And, uh, you know, if I think they felt like this guy's not going to be like an insurance for the big league team, then he's, you we don't want to waste a spot on them. And, you know, they had already.

Jeff Perro (21:19)
Perfume.

Jim Rushford (21:38)
done all their signing before I talked my way in, so I'm just like an extra add-on. But I mean, I did everything I could. I did well. just, it's an uphill battle.

Jeff Perro (21:48)
They probably had 60 guys in camp, with you being the 60th. And to work your way up to be the 40th or so, that takes some luck.

Jim Rushford (21:51)
So, yeah.

I

was upset because knew this was probably over, not by my choice, but because nobody wants me anymore. Then you got to decide, you play independent ball, you keep doing it, this and that. At this point in time, I'm older, I've been married for long time, I've got family, I've got three kids, I've got a mortgage.

You know, and baseball's not a same job.

Jeff Perro (22:27)
And you,

by this time, have you started your other career? And what was your other career? What did you go into after baseball?

Jim Rushford (22:33)
Just basically I get hooked up with the Oaxaca, the Mexican league. go for a week. I did fine, but they dumped me. And then I come home, I get an offer from independent ball, but simultaneously I had a went into a local copper mine here in Tucson. And I said, look, I just had a long, professional baseball career. It's over. I have a family to support. I just need a job.

Jeff Perro (22:35)
Second intervention.

Jim Rushford (22:59)
you know, that pays the bills, and they offered me the job. when it was between, you know, going to independent or.

taking the copper mine job. was just like, you know, at this point I can't gamble anymore. You know, it's just because you'd go play independent would have been great. I'm in shape. I'm ready to play. But that season is going to last three and a half months and then I'll be out of a job again. And, you know, I don't think I have any health insurance for not just me, but my whole family. I had to, I.

took so many risks and I took a chance on myself. I always gambled on myself. I believed in myself. That's what got me there. But at this point in time, this is like, it's gone too far now. I got to just make the sensible decision. So I took the job at the copper mine. loved it. They taught me how to those massive haul trucks. They're as big as two story houses. The tires are

Jeff Perro (23:35)
And that's what got you to the big leagues.

That's awesome.

My little kids love watching shows about giant dump trucks. So yeah, they're about the haul trucks.

Jim Rushford (23:59)
Yeah, I mean, think you got

to climb up a ladder like to the second story just to get into the driver's seat. The tires are 12 feet in diameter. They, you know, they're over a million pounds loaded. they taught me how to drive one in six weeks. All I had to do was show up, pair of jeans and steel-toed boots. gave me a hard hat and, you know, the other PPE I needed

And they told me I would drive one and I just, it was pretty cool and I liked it. I was making great money. And I had, benefits and there's a pension that came with it. It was a union job. And so I'm working all over time. can, because I'm trying to catch up on my bills. And then, you know, about eight months in, that's when, you know, the economy tanked. There are no way the real estate bubble popped and then the stock market crashed and then they just

Jeff Perro (24:34)
Yeah.

everybody

stopped building, the price of materials and minerals went down.

Jim Rushford (24:52)
Well, yeah,

like right now, like copper is like about 450 a pound. Well, it down to like a buck 50 a pound. So, you know, they couldn't make money anymore. And, the way it worked is, you know, the, it went by seniority and I had been the last person hired. So I was the first person laid off. And, know, at that point in time, I'm like, well, you had to have lived through.

But I mean, it was like the whole world came to a screeching halt. There is just no economic activity whatsoever.

Jeff Perro (25:20)
jobs and homeless unemployment. Yeah, people lost

their life savings in the stock market. That was a rough time.

Jim Rushford (25:26)
Yeah. I mean, it was

an absolute disaster. mean, I think people forget we've moved, we've been away from it for a while, but I mean, this was a scary time for, and you know, pretty devastating for a lot of people.

Jeff Perro (25:38)
You had to think that I ever going to find a job again? Or am I going to go back to being the pizza guy? But yeah, that's a...

Jim Rushford (25:41)
Alright, now let's do a tune.

Yeah. Well,

yeah, you couldn't even, I mean, people weren't even ordering pizzas. That's like, I mean, it's like you couldn't ask someone if you could like, you know, pick their weeds or anything for money. Like it was just, everybody was holding on to their money because nobody knew what was going on.

Jeff Perro (25:51)
Yeah, every nickel.

So how'd you make it through?

Jim Rushford (26:02)
Well, I quit paying my mortgage because I couldn't pay my mortgage anymore, but I did pay my first. So my wife started, you know, was working again because she wants my baseball career was winding down. She got a job, but she was not making, she had been on the workforce for many years. So she was starting at the bottom. So she was barely making anything. So that was just enough to.

Jeff Perro (26:09)
It's a great way to save money.

Jim Rushford (26:28)
you know, pay the electricity and the water and stuff. I did get unemployment, but in Arizona, unemployment's awful. Like it was just enough so can eat. all of a sudden I Tucson Toros, gonna be a new independent team in Tucson, in the Golden Baseball League. And Tim Johnson's gonna be the manager.

Jeff Perro (26:47)
Hey

Jim Rushford (26:51)
I'm like, no way, you know, like, I'm still in shape. So I knew Tim from playing in Mexico because he coached me.

Jeff Perro (26:55)
It's a small world. Did you know Tim Johnson before then?

Yeah, yeah, baseball is just such a small world

that you, mean, you and I have crossed paths, you know, a couple times with different people and stuff that, you definitely would probably know Tim Johnson.

Jim Rushford (27:07)
Yeah,

TJ. you know, like he had coached Mexicali. I played for Hermosillo a few years earlier. Oscar Suarez was...

Basically, working as my agent at the time, was also Tim Johnson's real close friend so I call him. Yeah. I'm like, Hey, can you, I want to play for this team. you give them a call? So I played a whole nother year that I never thought I would get to play and had a great time, did really well. Team came in first.

Jeff Perro (27:26)
Match made in heaven.

Ahem.

Right?

Jim Rushford (27:44)
We got to the championship, we lost the championship, but it was just like an awesome season. And it was like so much better than the way baseball ended the first time. So the first time baseball ends, I pretty much got no choice, but hey, let's just get the regular job. And the whole time I'm working at that copper mine, even though the job's good, I'm going, what am I doing here? Like, I never envisioned myself. You know, I grew up in the suburbs. I didn't ever envision myself like a...

operating heavy equipment. This is really weird, but I needed the money. So I get to play again and it's just like this last hurrah and it just was so much nicer of a way to end a career.

Jeff Perro (28:14)
and steel toe boots.

Jim Rushford (28:31)
Right, the season ends, couple months go by, and I'm gonna get evicted from my house. Like fortunately, there were so many foreclosures, they didn't kick me out right away. So I was able to live in my house for a number of months. And I'm thinking, now what am I gonna do? the economy was starting to come back, price of copper was coming up, so the mine called me back.

So got my old job back. So I got my old job back just in the nick of time to be able to rent a house in the same neighborhood right as I was getting kicked out.

And this time I go back to the copper mine and now I'm like, you know, kissing the ground. I'm like, you know, this is the best job ever. Yeah. Exactly. That's what's keeping me alive. That's what's paying the bills and the work itself. It's hard work. You know, I liked it.

Jeff Perro (29:16)
never leaving this place hugging that big 12 foot tire.

Jim Rushford (29:31)
You gotta do 12 hour shifts, you gotta go back and forth between day shifts and night shifts, you gotta stay awake all night and drive this massive vehicle. When it rains, those things, they slide down the hill like you're on ice. So you're in a truck as big as a two-story house, just sliding sideways down the hill, no traction whatsoever, and there's a loaded truck coming up at you.

Jeff Perro (29:44)
Holy moly.

Jim Rushford (29:56)
And you have be sure not to run into this person and that person's a sitting duck because you know, when they're loaded, they're only about five miles an hour up the hill and they can't move anywhere. know, so it's up to you as a downhill driver to not kill the guy. Yeah, it's a lot of people do that. The first time it happens, they quit because sometimes they quit the first time they walk up the steps and they get to the top of the truck and realize how big it is. they're like, nope. And then sometimes it's after that first.

Jeff Perro (30:09)
This is how I end.

Jim Rushford (30:25)
time driving in the mud and you're sliding all over the place. They quit or they like learn how to do something else at the mine because they just don't want to have to do it. But I did.

if I had other options in the beginning, I might have quit because it was scary. needed a job. I need to make this money. I had no choice. I just forced myself.

Jeff Perro (30:48)
And where the book ends, You were driving the haul truck. Are you still doing that?

Jim Rushford (30:50)
so I could tell. No,

I did it for almost 14 years and I gotta say I got so good at driving that truck that I think I was as good at driving the truck as I was at baseball. Like it was just like an extension of my body, just like my back.

Jeff Perro (31:05)
You

know, you had two cool jobs that little five-year-old Jim probably would be like, wait, I get to play baseball and drive a dump truck? That's a dream for a little kid. You did good for yourself twice.

Jim Rushford (31:13)
Yeah.

I never really

grew up, you know. It was perfect job, but was, you know, the hours are rough. It is dangerous. They did start making more more cuts. We had a strike. We had to go through. was a substitute teacher. I coached the high school baseball team. My son was on. three years ago now, I...

Jeff Perro (31:20)
All right.

Yeah, true.

Jim Rushford (31:43)
switched to medical bill coding. So I'm able to work from home and million times easier, million times safer. I get the big buzz.

Jeff Perro (31:56)
make your own schedule, you have

your time. There's no zero commute. So you get that time back.

Jim Rushford (32:02)
Yeah. So, I mean, you can't really

beat it. it's obviously, don't know. I didn't dream my whole life of being a medical bill coder, but it's a, it's a fine job. does. And it allows me to do all the other things I want to do.

you self-identify as a baseball player. It's like, your entire self-image is that's what you are. That's what makes you special and important and what makes you feel good about yourself. And you lose that. It's really hard for everybody. But.

Jeff Perro (32:34)
It was hard for me. I was a clubhouse manager. I was a guy who put out peanut butter and jelly and washed dirty uniforms. And when I left baseball, mean, my friends thought it was a cool job. It wasn't. I worked 16 hour days, 100 days in a row, whatever. But my friends thought it was cool. And then I left that and I went back to the restaurant business and yeah, I kind of lost a little bit there. I personally understand. Yeah.

Jim Rushford (32:54)
It's not a

job, it's a way of life and it's your whole identity, it's everything you are. when the next season started, I'm not on a team, I guess I described it as, you know, it's like watching your own funeral. You you're your funeral and you're in the casket, you know.

Jeff Perro (33:14)
Yeah, you're watching all your friends who are still playing.

Jim Rushford (33:17)
Yeah,

that's how you feel. mean, it's an awful feeling and it's helpless. There's nothing you could do. I mean, it's over. And another thing is, you you're losing the thing that you're most passionate about in life and the thing that got you excited every day. it takes a while, eventually you find something that gets you

Almost as excited as baseball got you. I would say it's quite the same, but...

Jeff Perro (33:41)
Hopefully you do. The people

I've talked to seem to have gotten something, it seems like, but hopefully he finds something to replace that.

Jim Rushford (33:47)
Yeah. And sometimes it's like

something you did, some other thing you did as growing up, like prior to baseball, but sometimes you find something new, I went back to just weightlifting and running and all that. But I also got really into like economics. But because because of the crash and losing my house and getting laid off and all the things I went through, I'm like, what in the heck is going on? I'm like, I better

learn something about this. I got to, yeah, but I found myself just as excited, I can't wait to read this economics article tomorrow or read this book. And I would be so excited, for baseball. like, that's sort of like, was one of the things that filled the gap, the hole you know, that baseball left.

Jeff Perro (34:17)
So if it happens again, I can catch myself.

That's awesome.

Jim Rushford (34:39)
But that's what I'd recommend to people is like they find when you recognize something that gets you as excited as baseball or it comes close, so that's what you should be doing. Like that's your next thing to do. And that's the way to get from your baseball career on to the next thing.

Jeff Perro (34:59)
Have you dabbled in working in finance?

Jim Rushford (35:01)
Well,

I thought about it, I let the end of things, nothing really ever came together. It was a very serious hobby for me to learn about. it wasn't so much about investing in the stock market. I spent a little more time learning about macroeconomics and economic policy and things like that.

I spent more of my time learning about, instead of the things that are going to make me money, I more learned about the things that might be good for society as a whole or something.

Jeff Perro (35:35)
Right, right. A way to not lose your money even. Yeah, and nowadays this is an interesting time. It's an active time, we'll say, for your serious hobby of finance.

Jim Rushford (35:44)
Right,

right, and it has got me reading a lot more stuff again because the thing is there's so many things happening and you can see the cause and effect and so I want to follow along and see how different things play out.

Jeff Perro (36:03)
That's good. Something to occupy your brain as well as your body. You mentioned you coach your son's baseball team. here, last thing that it mentions, again, this was printed in 2022. Last thing it mentions, was all state, correct? What's he been up to since then? Fill us in the world needs to know what's going on with Milo

Jim Rushford (36:05)
Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, you go through, you go through, you...

I should have read that one year I played with the Toros, the clubhouse manager there called Snake. I used to bring Milo he was like about four and I'd leave him in the locker room with Snake. And Snake taught him how to make like the best paper airplane and all this stuff. While he was doing his work, he started to babysit him the whole time. Yeah, yeah, so.

Jeff Perro (36:50)
That's a cool environment for a kid to have. I had

my kids after baseball, but it would have been cool to have them in that environment.

Jim Rushford (36:55)
Yeah, it was

really fun to get to bring him. Junior Spivey was on the team and he'd bring his kid. His kid's now a D1 football player. But Milo did real well in high school. got drafted by the Royals in 2022. He's in spring training right now. So this is his third season. He got to play.

Jeff Perro (37:16)
I so, I it's my bad today.

Jim Rushford (37:17)
He got to play in

Australia, not the winter before. it's cool that he gets to experience a lot of the same things.

Jeff Perro (37:27)
You're probably two hours away from where you live where he is in spring training. Have you gotten up there yet this spring?

Jim Rushford (37:32)
No, I'll get up there in the next few weeks. So yeah, I'm two and a half from Surprise because I'm south of Tucson. He's on the northwest side of Phoenix. That's that little edge.

Jeff Perro (37:42)
So he's in his third spring training with the Royals. That's cool. We got some good talks with him, kind of what to expect. Because let me go ahead and get into my next question. I got the two standardized questions that I ask everybody that I talk to. The first one would be,

Jim Rushford (37:53)
Okay.

Jeff Perro (37:56)
If you could call young Jim Rushford, let's say after your junior season at San Diego State, if you could call that young man about the same age as Milo and give him some advice to prepare him for career in professional baseball, what would you offer him?

Jim Rushford (38:13)
Um, well, the first thing is hit the weights. but also just understanding what is expected of you. If you think you want to get drafted or signed out of college, you know, you need to put up these kinds of numbers. this is the bar. This is what you're going for. This is what they're looking for.

and Just to be relaxed Don't you know don't let anxiety get to you? But but go just go hard and don't worry about the outcome because you know, that's all you can do if you go hard

Jeff Perro (38:48)
Hey,

you guys are worries of this thing about your time is going hard. It's about going hard. Full speed in the center field wall. It's you.

Jim Rushford (38:51)
Yeah.

I

read one other day, like, you you can't, you know, when you think about the future of anxiety, the problem is not thinking about the future, it's that you're trying to control the future and you can't control the future. And that's what gives you the anxiety. other than just planning ahead and having a good plan, that's what the thing about the future should be. All you can do is go hard in the moment and just keep going hard.

sooner or later, it's going to lead you somewhere good, you know, it might not be where you originally set out for, but, but, you know, you'll get, you'll get to where you should be

Jeff Perro (39:26)
I love that.

love that. The second question is, if you could go back, you got the same magic phone, you can call yourself, say around 2006, seven, eight, and you kind of get the feeling that it's kind of winding down and you're preparing for that next step. And imagine there's anxiety with the future there. What advice would you give yourself toward the end of your baseball career?

Jim Rushford (39:55)
I think the hard part was you do get a little stale, especially because I had to keep playing winter ball to pay my bills. So I was getting no break. I was playing all year round of the year. it wasn't so much it wore on me physically, it wore on me mentally. And I didn't have the same zest or zeal I had when I was getting my first chance with the Brewers

And if there was a way I could have like reinvigorated myself

Jeff Perro (40:21)
Right.

post baseball career,

Jim Rushford (40:23)
Okay, so that is where I

probably really went wrong is, you I'm really introverted. And, you know, I was there to play baseball but I wasn't really socialized. So I didn't do a whole lot of networking and building friendships. I mean, I got along with everyone. wasn't like people hated me or anything like that. just did had I maybe nurtured some relationships and networked more and

kept them maybe I could have segwayed into a career in baseball and coaching or even like guys move on to other things I think had I done that I might have never been able to.

Jeff Perro (41:08)
And that's something

to them to help them get ready for that next step.

Jim Rushford (41:09)
Yeah, there's a lot more

help now for guys. But by the time all that came around, I could have definitely used it at the time because I was lost. I didn't know what to do. But by the time all that came around, I sort of had fallen into the mining job. Yeah, I haven't needed to utilize any of those resources. But yeah, could have at the time, I could have definitely used help there.

Jeff Perro (41:14)
Right.

Maybe you help set up this generation of professional baseball players guys that think they're gonna play in the big leagues for 10 years and Get a couple of All-Star Games and they flame out in AA or something like that

Jim Rushford (41:40)
Yeah.

is I wish I had learned like a trade, like welding or some kind of just HVAC, just some kind of skill where you always can get a job and it's perfect for the off season because then maybe I could have taken a year off winter ball and worked and refreshed my mind and body or things like that. But also, would alleviate a lot of anxiety if, you know, am I going to get

Jeff Perro (42:11)
Right.

Jim Rushford (42:15)
release that spring training or when the year is over, what am I going to do? Uh, you know, if I have these certain skills that are marketable. Yeah. Like that's what I would recommend is a skill or a trade or something. And then like you always got as a backup and you can keep playing longer because like, let's just say you are relegated to the independent leagues. Still fun. It's good baseball.

you got something you can keep playing an independent ball and then just do that other job and you can keep you can keep it going for a while.

Jeff Perro (42:47)
All

Yeah, rather than to drop baseball and change careers and get into something that's semi-satisfying, they cooperate and you can extend your baseball career a longer. That's great. I like that a lot.

Jim Rushford (43:01)
Yeah, so I'd recommend

that. And I wish I had known that at a younger age.

Jeff Perro (43:09)
Right, there

you go. Mr. Rushford it's been a pleasure talking to you. I appreciate your time. It's been a pleasure catching up. But thank you, Mr. Rushford, I appreciate your time.

Jim Rushford (43:18)
Thanks

for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to tell my story.

Jeff Perro (43:27)
So there you go. And there's just so, so much more about this man's career and his life than we even touch on. It's all in the book. this is something that you should read. Furthermore, for further, further reading, Mr. Rushford created a public figure Facebook page. And it's fascinating content. There's no pictures in this book. It's just straight words. But what he uploaded to that Facebook page was, you know, the pictures that would have been in here, plus so, so, so much more.

There's hundreds of pictures of this man's life, videos as well. Videos of his first major hit, videos of his first home run, videos of him playing when he was 12 years old. And it's just the coolest thing. separately, each of these things is cool. Together, both of these things are fascinating. So Amazon picked up the book, I'll post a link. Facebook, follow this. Public figure page, Jim Rushford it says, this fan page is to supplement my baseball autobiography with photo and video content.

fascinating things. Thank you for stopping by today.